Comments on: Preaching to the choir https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/ Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues. Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:17:25 +0000 hourly 1 By: Bookslinger https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-136298 Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:17:25 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-136298 “So as far as the church is concerned, ANY converts a missionary happens to produce is just gravy. Programming the young missionary is the meat and potatoes.”

That used to be openly stated, in these terms: “The most import convert a missionary will make is himself.”

However, don’t ever let the idea of converts not being important to the church take root. Converts _are_ important. Without converts, the church would in-breed and wither.

Granted, the growth (counting active/retained members only) comes more from children of members than it does from converts. But the church _has_ to have “fresh blood” or it will die off.

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By: Anonymous https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-133235 Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:22:17 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-133235 In the church there are two things we spend a lot of time talking about, home teaching and missionary work. I think it is because they are the two things we do not like to do. If we spend enough time talking about it maybe we can fool ourselves into thinking we have done something about missionary work or home teaching.

I do not like restrictive rules or one dimensional programs that assume that all missionary work fits into a specific pattern. Everyone responds in their own individual way.

I do not like make work projects that do not accomplish anything but magnify the work we are supposed to simplify.

I don’t like people who tell me what I should do with my friends. Missionary work is a bit like dating. If you try too hard you get no success. What is more scary than a zealous member who wants to tell you all he knows and commit you to it all in one conversation?

I look forward to the day when the members of the church realize that guilt is not the Lords way to motivate people. It does not motivate anyone and it is a form compulsion frowned upon in D&C 121.

I am a horrible missionary. I don’t open my mouth, I usually do not volunteer easily that I am a member of the church but I have had some success as a missionary. The only reason for this success is because I have many friends and associates outside of the church.

We are too closed or too busy with our callings to venture out into the real world.

Perhaps I am selfish if I do not share the gospel but I don’t think people will be damned to hell if they do not get the gospel in this life either.

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By: jjackson https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-133183 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:53:48 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-133183 Back when I was in a more believing state, and particularly while I was on my mission, I thought that the best way to get members to be missionaries was for them to be as happy as possible.

They needed to know what they believed and why, and it needed to make them happy. So when we taught members, we focused on helping them to feel happy rather than twisting the referral screw. It also helped if they thought the missionaries wouldn’t do or say anything weird around their friends. The better the connection between the missionaries and the member, the more likely it was that the member would suggest that a friend talk to the missionaries.

What really seemed to work was when non-members had a chance to actually get to know and connect with the missionaries without any pressure or commitments. (At least at first…the pressure – I mean commitment pattern – came later.) But by then the investigator didn’t mind so much because they really liked the missionaries. It was a manipulation based on the build-up of referent power, but at least it was a soft manipulation. Effective, at any rate.

An even more cynical part of me knows that the missionary department knows that converts who come into the church because they know active families tend to contribute much more in terms of both service and tithing, than converts who join through other avenues of proselytizing.

If I want to crank my cynicism up to “11”, I’d say that the biggest thing accomplished by having missionaries serve in areas where there are relatively few converts (any developed nation) is the conditioning of the missionaries to be obedient to church authority, and streaming them into meeting the cultural milestones of the church. They’ll come home, get married relatively soon, go to school, start raising more church members, get decent jobs and spend the next 50 years giving 10% of their money (and more of their time) to the church, training their children to do so, and even paying for their sons and daughter to spend a couple of years at the same obedience school.

So as far as the church is concerned, ANY converts a missionary happens to produce is just gravy. Programming the young missionary is the meat and potatoes.

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By: Conifer https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-133180 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:28:16 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-133180 Well, it’s not working on me. :)

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-133168 Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:25:30 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-133168 s another way to guilt/force members into inviting non-members into their homes.]]> Conifer, it’s another way to guilt/force members into inviting non-members into their homes.

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By: jjackson https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-133106 Sun, 11 Jul 2010 23:30:34 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-133106 Sorry, Kim, it was from JM who wrote the post. I’m just used to these posts being mostly yours. I also meant to say that RMs LEAVE the church in my last comment rather than LEAD…though some of them obviously end up doing that as well.

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-133099 Sun, 11 Jul 2010 18:41:12 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-133099 t recall saying that in my comments.]]> jjackson, I think you might be quoting someone else. I don’t recall saying that in my comments.

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By: jjackson https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-133095 Sun, 11 Jul 2010 17:14:27 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-133095 Kim said: “Is this the future of missionary work in the church? To spend all that money, time, effort, and resources to become an over-glorified home teaching program?”

Quite possibly. Rick may be on to something, but I think it has more to do with using the missionaries to do preventative maintenance on a dam that church leaders can see is starting to spring leaks. LOTS of RMs go inactive or lead the church, though not necessarily in the first few years after serving. For many it’s much later in life. I can’t remember the numbers, but I remember being in a stake training meeting with 70 Elder Coleman where he told us that if you use a 20 year window, the church’s retention of returned missionaries was only slightly better than the 5 year retention rate of converts, and he said that we’re keeping less than half of those.

One of the lessons from the “war” sections of the Book of Mormon is that it is easier to preserve what you have than it is to get what you don’t have or retake what you’ve lost. Maybe the missionaries are seen as a resource that can be used to preserve. Rick’s idea that the missionaries will have safe, positive teaching experiences may only be a side benefit.

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By: Conifer https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-133012 Sat, 10 Jul 2010 07:34:35 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-133012 I would prefer that over how things are here — in my stake (or mission, I guess) the missionaries can’t have dinner with members unless there’s an investigator there, period. I have no idea who thought this would be a good idea, but it’s pretty much ensured that I’m never having them over for dinner. If I can’t have them in my home to meet them and get an idea of who they are and how competent I think they are I’m not letting them near my friends. I think having them give us a discussion would be a good way to get to know them a bit.

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By: D https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2010/07/08/preaching-to-the-choir/comment-page-1/#comment-132976 Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:34:03 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=2368#comment-132976 I completely get the whole teaching LDS families discussions; You may think that just because you have great attendance in your wards in your area that everyone is “active” in keeping the commandments. Not the case in the least. Teaching the members the discussions gives those members more tools to carry out member-missionary work. Really and truly missionaries today have such a hard time contacting & then teaching people without the help of the local members of the wards/branches in their areas.

Complacency is a huge issue when it comes to members of the LDS church. People think oh I know the truth why should I share it or they are simply embarrassed to share. I think we NEED to be reminded to be bold, to be unique, to stand out and to stand up for what we believe in, not in a shove it in your face, cocky way, but in a loving & caring way.

Missionary work has changed a great deal over the past 5 years. There is an even greater push for Every Member a Missionary. Sharing the gospel truths not only strengthens ones foothold in the gospel, but also our families and friends.

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