Open thread for the April 2010 General Conference.
Also see http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/04/03/general-conference-live-from-salt-lake-its-saturday-morning/
April 2010 General Conference
55 thoughts on “April 2010 General Conference”
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Listening to Elder Eyring’s talk reminds me of why he is my favourite speaker.
I always love it when Elder Packard speaks.
I enjoyed it all, especially the music, except for the comment about social justice by D. Todd Christopherson that echoed Glenn Beck. I don’t approve of political commentary in church talks.
D. Todd Christofferson
“They have imagined a Jesus who wants people to work for social justice but who makes no demands upon their personal life or behaviour.”
That was one of my favourite quotes of the whole afternoon session. He went on to explain that God loves us so he doesn’t leave us to learn by “sad experience” that wickedness never was happiness.
I didn’t get the political commentary in that quote. I am really interested in what you interpreted that to mean.
Elder Russell M. Nelson is my new hero :)
Tithing is a form of social justice, and it is commanded. So…Todd Christofferson just plain wrong, or what did he mean?
I had the impression he was getting after people who eschew social justice.
We’re missing the point. Glenn Beck repeatedly talks about the way progressives redefine words and phrases. By labeling the government’s ability to force us to redistribute our wealth they can pass it off as a good thing, a Christian thing, and ridicule all those who oppose it, viz. Glenn Beck, as anti-Christian. As mentioned in a prior comment tithing may be a commandment, but we are not forced to pay it. The government forcing us to “be charitable†only takes away our agency. I am sure Elder Christofferson used the phrase in its originally intended meaning. Yes, we do have an obligation to help the less fortunate, but for it to constitute as true Christian charity we must do it of our own free will and accord.
“They have imagined a Jesus who wants people to work for social justice but who makes no demands upon their personal life or behaviour.”
He is stating that Jesus wants people to work for social justice and make demands on their personal life and behavior, i.e.- teaching a man to fish, or i.e., work-welfare.
Glenn Beck’s definition of Social Justice is uneducated at best. If anything, D. Todd rebuked Beck by stating that Christ indeed preaches Social Justice.
Hmm I thought he was saying that people want social justice but don’t feel they should have to sacrifice personally to get it.
I think he is right. We do want to clean up the world, per se, as long as it doesn’t mean I have to clean my backyard. I don’t think we can have social justice without personal sacrifice.
nasamomdele, in reference to Glenn Beck I’m really not trying to just win an argument, as I think we’re on all on the same team, but what Beck is saying is that liberal progressives have an agenda that will take away our freedom. To move it forward they are applying feel-good terms to their agenda items. Social justice is one of those. Many words and phrase have multiple meanings. Here is Beck’s liberal progressive definition of social justice: “Forced redistribution of wealth with a hostility towards individual property rights under the guise of charity and/or justice.” Sounds like the healthcare bill to me. Here’s Beck talking about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyU5KcNrEnc.
I don’t agree with Beck in a number of ways. His definition of social justice is one that few use (and includes some pieces that he made up all by himself), but he uses to attack opposing ideology.
That doesn’t change his challenge to run from churches that preach social justice- the Prophet and another GA both mentioned that the Church preaches and is involved in Social Justice.
Its an argument that Beck is a hack and should not be given any credibility among members.
Let’s forget Beck is involved for a second and forget that his definition of social justice is just that, a definition of social justice. In your opinion is the ideology described by the following phrase good or bad, “Forced redistribution of wealth with a hostility towards individual property rights under the guise of charity and/or justice”?
I don’t know much about the Glen Beck dude but after a brief internet search he seems like one scary dude. I can’t stand these very opinionated but not very intelligent know it all American commentators on garbage news channels. He is too dogmatic and wears blinders from what I see. Very irrelevant to me as a Canadian.
Anonymous, I’m not sure if everyone on this page is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but I am and as a member of the Church it really bugs me when someone passes judgment about me and the Church “after a brief Internet search.” I don’t agree with everything Beck says and does, I don’t consider him a prophet, and I don’t hold anything against you if you don’t like him. I really don’t care. I do, however, think that your approach to entering this conversation demonstrates a problem that we have here in the States. People with limited and many times bias information formulate opinions and do very little thinking and investigating for themselves before voicing those opinions. At any rate, this isn’t about Beck or any other talking head. All I know is the US Federal Government passed a 2,000 page bill–despite its passage being overwhelmingly against the will of the people–giving them control of our healthcare system (1/6 of the US economy). They lumped student loans into the bill meaning all college students who take out a student loan will leave school indebted to the govt. They have entered the private private financial sector through once failing financial institutions and have done the same the auto industry. All of these things have happened in about a year clearly demonstrating the current administration’s desire to make this a socialist nation. You may not see this as problematic, but it is very, very troublesome to me.
Zachary Pitts,
I said nothing to denigrate the church. The Republican view point does not represent the position of the church. I merely spoke out against a American political commentator. He in no way represents the church.
I don’t see how financial bail outs has anything to do with social justice I see it as welfare for the wealthy, oligarchy would be seem to be the term that applies. I do not see socialism as America’s (or Canada’s) biggest problems. Moral decay is the problem.
I believe a moral people under a socialist government would fare very well. A wicked people under no holds barred capitalism will be a disaster. Politics doesn’t matter as much as morality. Cuba has bad politics but a lovely people.
In Canada we had an Obama like leader. His name is Tommy Douglas and he us almost universally revered as a national hero recognized as one of the greatest Canadians.
One can be a worthy temple attending and be a Democrat. I see the Republican right as being very unChristian in many of their policies and I can not see George Bush as a model Christian or even as a defender of liberty… he certainly is no Captain Moroni.
I don’t know much about Glenn Beck but since he is in with the Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly jet set you can hardly claim they have thoughtful unbiased opinions.
Anyway after listening to Elder Christopherson talk again I don’t see his remarks as political commentary. I doubt he did Glenn Beck the privilege of an indirect reference.
I agree the United State has a problem with polarized politics. I see it here in Canada too. The thing that scares me about politicians in general (I am not a big fan of the right or the left) are those who are absolutely certain they are correct and don’t acknowledge two sides exist and that social and political problems are complex and there a few simple answers or easy solutions.
My 2 cents.
Of all the things one could say about General Conference I don’t know why the Beck fellow came up?
I think Boyd K. Packer set the tone for Conference. It matters what happens at home.
Priesthood power needs to be more widely distributed.
Pornography again. We haven’t got the message about this destructive evil. Lust as the most deadly sin.
We need to talk to our children, teach our children, testify to our children, be a consistent example of righteousness to our children. Elder Bednar has spoken before about the power of consistency in family religious observances.
I haven’t listened to all the talks yet.
I loved the thought that Elder Christofferson was making..
People who think they are so righteous by calling for social justice and then give nothing on their own… They can damage others in their personal life and yet piously call for “Social Justice”‘ I loved that Elder Christofferson!
Wendy,
Thank you for putting Elder Christofferson’s words that way. I had struggled to express what he meant but I think you are right on the money with your interpretation. Christians are not those who just say good things but who actually do good things. Well said.
Perhaps many may not agree with Obama’s health care scheme or his politics but it actually helps a lot of people in a meaningful way. The old system oppressed the poor. Not a good thing in my books.
Sorry to digress back into politics again.
Elder Christofferson’s remarks on social justice are a direct rebuke to secular liberals and socialists. In the real modern world, socialism and the Gospel are imcompatible. Socialist Europe is basically Godless. In the United States, over 85 percent of people who attend Church regularly and have a strong belief in God are conservatives. Elder Christofferson is talkig directly to Hollywood, the pornographers, the abortionists, and atheistic academia–all major supporters of the liberal Democratic Party. He is talking to corrpt politicians and decadent actors who assuage their consciences by supporting a gigantic welfare state and social justice as they bask in great power and indulge themselves in sex, drugs, and all many of vice.
Elder Christofferson’s remarks are not partisan. They are about morality.
There may be some liberals or socialists who are immoral. But so are democratic thinking corrupt capitalists who only take,take,take and contribute nothing to society and oppress the poor, prey on widows all in the name of freedom and what ever other hypocritical excuses they can think of. Sin lies on both sides of the political spectrum. To say all conservative are good and all liberals are bad is simply ridiculous. You can’t make such broad characterizations of people, not all academics are atheistic for example. Not all of Hollywood is evil. I will give you that all pornographers are evil but some of them love the free market system too. It makes them very rich.
When Jesus was alive he was not usually with the ruling elites He was with the godless, liberals, prostitutes, publicans and sinners because at least their minds were open enough to listen, admit they might be wrong and repent.
The conservative Pharisees where less open and openly raised His scorn.
Anonymous,
I never said that you said anything negative against the Church. I was merely drawing a parallel, comparing how you did a quick Internet search to form your opinion on someone to the way many people draw conclusions about the Church.
It’s not that financial bailouts have something to do with social justice directly, but that the Obama administration’s definition of social justice and its bailouts are all leading us towards government enforced socialism. Why is this bad? I was born and raised on an Indian Reservation and I’ve seen firsthand with family and friends what socialism does to people. For example, Laman and Lemuel left their home, their friends, and their belongings in Jerusalem, just like Nephi. They made two trips back to Jerusalem, just like Nephi. They traveled through the desert for 8 years, just like Nephi. They crossed the ocean, just like Nephi. One of the key differences is mentioned in 1 Nephi 3:6. Nephi didn’t complain. He went forth willingly. Forcing people to help other people via policy that does not require anything from those being helped benefits neither those “helping†nor those being helping. Those forced to help are not utilizing their agency to be charitable and there for don’t benefit from the act. Those being helped don’t progress because there is no incentive for them to become self-sufficient.
I completely agree that wickedness is our number one problem. As for a righteous people being served well by a socialist government The Book of Mormon teaches kingship would be an ideal form of government, if you could ensure that all kings were righteous. The same holds true for the government. It must be run by righteous people. The problem is socialism allows for too much control and if you have corrupt government officials (which we do on both sides of the aisle) calling the shots things go very badly.
What did Tommy Douglas do that makes him like Obama?
I agree that you can be a temple worthy Democrat. I personally am an Independent because I don’t believe both side has the best interest of my country at heart and I disagree with many of their policies and practices.
If you feel that way about Beck and the rest of the conservative talking heads that’s fine, but I hope you at least know what they’re saying and why they’re saying it.
I never indicated that Elder Christofferson’s remarks were political or that he was referencing Glenn Beck.
In short, while capitalism has some serious warts and has had some undeniably bad effects, I can’t think of any system in the world that has been responsible for more good. If it weren’t for the ingenuity and resources created by America’s capitalist society we’d probably all be speaking German or Russian.
As for your following comments about conference in general I totally agree.
I totally agree that Elder Christofferson was talking about immorality..
And I am very opposed to Pres. Obama’s Health care! I think that there should be health care reform but this is not the way to do it! Open your eyes people!
And I think that we need liberty to be charitable where and when we want to. forcing us to be charitible is wrong..It is Satan’s plan is social justice!
Zachary Pitts,
I appreciate your comments. I must admit that my problem with Beck is not really what he thinks about social justice. He is entitled to such beliefs.
My big problem with Beck is asking people to leave their churches if their church supports social justice. I am embarrassed beyond belief that any member of my church would make such a move.
I don’t mind Beck’s views so much as his mingling them with religion in the way he has. Most churches who talk about social justice have the best of intentions and do so much good.
He seems to me to be intolerant, closed minded, extremist, fear mongering, and irrationally militant. He does not seem to have any compassion and understanding of people of different views and seems to target people who are compassionate and tolerant and broad minded. This is what has got me so upset.
I would hope Beck as such an openly LDS media figure would be more compassionate, more tolerant and more understanding. If he had these qualities I wouldn’t care anything about his politics.
Sorry to have monopolized this blogg so much….
P.S. Tommy Douglas fought for public health care in Canada. The system is far from perfect but it is not the big scary boogieman some make it out to be. The one down side to public health care in Canada is you are not able to go outside the system to pay for your own care even if you have the means. But what human system is perfect?
I love to read any comment in this post. And i want to say “I love when Elder Packard speaks about something.”
How interesting that most posters are quoting Glen Beck, rather than Conference speakers. Did Beck speak at Conference. Personally, I am not a member, and I thought the call to ’embrace all’ and ‘love everyone in spite of differences’ was pure hypocritical baloney. The Mormon Church declares a multimillion dollar war to destroy equal protection under the law for homosexual Americans and talks about ’embracing everyone in spite of differences.’ What complete rubbish.
ExMoHoMoDon,
The irony that Glen Beck did not speak at conference is duly noted. Touche. I assume you are talking about prop 8 in California.
I was reflecting on my recent comments that Beck was intolerant and I didn’t like the way he mixed religion and politics. I had an moment of insight as I pondered my post wondering if I have been somewhat intolerant of what I perceived as the the Republicans must be right view I assume everyone in Utah has, when I realized that this same mixture of politics and religion must be somewhat how many people felt about prop eight in California.
Mormons have had a somewhat bad reputation on rights due to the ERA and Prop 8. There was a lot of talk during conference about embracing everyone but there was also talk of standing up for what one believes to be right.
The two items are viewed by the Church, not necessarily by all its members as moral issues.
The fact that I feel that marriage is between a man and woman only does not make me hate gay people. It does create a lot of awkward tension with gay acquaintances but I am not one who waves anti gay placards or pickets abortion clinics.
The sad fact is that all have sinned. My neighbour may be an adulterer. I will speak out against adultery or pornography as sin but I can still get along with and live beside, work with, and admire many people who disagree with me.
I agree Mormon’s can be a little exclusive. I don’t think we teach exclusivity but I know for me that my family goes back to the early days and the persecution, trek west, isolation, and living in small Mormon towns in the West have created a certain culture.
As the church moves worldwide hopefully some of this exclusive culture will disappear.
Once again ExMoHoMoDon you have drawn me away from talking about the Conference messages. Glad you were able to see some of conference. I hope you enjoyed what you saw.
I am fairly certain that the “Mormon Church” supports equal protection under the law for homosexual Americans as proven by their stance in Utah affording equal rights to same sex couples. I believe the only thing the church is opposed to is extending the classification of marriage to same sex couples. Civil unions are not in question. It seems the fear is that if the definition of marriage is altered that it puts in direct conflict the state and the church.
Tyler M and anon I didn’t listen to GC as I am not a member of the Mormon Church. I saw a newspaper article on the talk given by Elder Uchtdorf and only read excerpts and the hypocrisy it exposed left me breathless. Secular marriage should be available and will be eventually be available based on the equal protection clause of the Constitution. So far as I can tell, equal protection means just that, not a few rights given to homosexuals at the caprice of groups like the Mormon Church that orchestrate what rights the Utah legislature will and will not give. Religious marriage has nothing to do with secular civil law, as religions can and should be able to marry whom they choose, as they do now. The Mormon Church for example can even deny marriage to its own members who do not qualify for Temple attendance. In no place where homosexual marriage is allowed by civil statute are religions required to marry them, as religions are allowed to discriminate based on both the freedom of association clause and the freedom of religion clauses of the Constitution. The fear that legal secular marriage will infringe on the free practice of religion is a fear skillfully manipulated by the Mormon Church in its war against homosexual Americans, but it is not legal reality. If indeed you want to ‘stand up’ for what you believe, please do so in your church and in the publics square, but once you seek to destroy equal protection under civil law for homosexual Americans which was in fact what Prop 8 was all about, then you have crossed a line. I don’t think the Mormon Church was prepared for the pushback from that and it is hardly over. I would suggest that ‘standing up’ for a one man one woman model might include: making heterosexual divorce illegal and doing away with DC 132, the ‘new and everlasting covenant of plural marriage.’ Furthermore, if as you say, you are against adultery for example, to be morally consistent you should also seek to make it illegal, as you did with homosexual marriage. I’m glad you use the term ‘gay acquaintances’ as no one who opposes equal protection under the law for homosexuals can at the same time call them friends. What Prop 8 taught homosexual Americans is that the Mormon Church is our enemy: we seek equal protection under the law, but seek neither the approbation nor friendship of the Mormon Church in achieving it. As far as the perception of Mormon exclusivity, I say good luck with diminishing that. After 150 years of racist doctrine towards black people, the ERA and now your campaign against homosexuals, I don’t see much hope for that. The Mormon Church is perceived as exclusive because it is both hateful and exclusive. After reading the talk from GC that I mentioned, add to that perception vastly hypocritical. BTW, the racist lunatic Glen Beck isn’t helping your public image.
ExMoHoMoDon,
Ouch. You touched on some sore spots. I will agree that Glen Beck does not help the churches image at all. At least from my point of view. I am saddened I haven’t heard more on this blog decrying his position. Perhaps I am not being charitable enough.
From you name I might assume you are a former member of the LDS church. If that is the case I hope you did not find us LDS hateful. I know we have many flaws, we often fall short of what we preach in practice. There a few vocal wing nuts and zealots among us but I hope we are not a hateful people.
But you are right the black prohibition on priesthood is a very difficult thing. I was a young child when President Kimball made the announcement and I remember it was a joyous day in my household and among all I knew. I don’t think many resented the change though I understand some felt that way.
I do know a few gay people who have left the church and I can not say a negative thing about them. They were upstanding people and seeing their challenges has made me feel compassion not hatred.
I do not know much about the ERA.
Faith is a difficult thing. It often means believing what can’t be proven and at times seems foolish to some. All I can say as despite all the negatives as I listened to General Conference I again had feelings that those men and women speaking did so under God’s direction and I believe the words they spoke. They rang true in my heart is all I can say.
Their words encouraged me to be better, to have more faith, to be a better person, to be kinder, more compassionate, and more inclusive. I am one who struggles to be good and I often fail. But for me I am a better person because of my faith.
As for prop 8 I have no good arguments against your points. If you see marriage only as a civil and legal transaction your ideas make sense.
Have a great day.
What is unfortunate about the obvious negative hostility which I hold towards the Mormon Church, is that I am certainly aware that there are loving, thoughtful and charitable people among their number. My experience as a survivor of aversion therapy at BYU and the aggregate of my experiences in the Mormon Church led me to leave voluntarily–I instigated it with the threat of a lawsuit–and also led me to the conclusion that the Mormon Church is primarily hateful and unChristian.
The cost of my survival depends in part on never again being complacent about who is my enemy and who does not have my happiness, safety and well being in mind when they seek to manipulate public policy to demean, marginalize and exclude me from equal protection under the law…..not just me, but my family as I have 3 children.
I might share in your honest, heartfelt sentiments regarding GC talks if I believed them to also be honest and heartfelt. However, I see most of them as dishonest PR–platitudes that are meaningless when compared side by side with the Mormon Church’s ACTIONS. To be honest I miss the music terribly.
Thank you for listening to what from your perspective must be quite brutal and hard to hear. If most Mormons were even slightly willing to at least hear criticism without resulting to defaming the critic, there might be far less acrimony towards the Mormon Church, its leaders and members. I don’t see much hope of that.
ExMoHoMoDon,
All I can say is I am sorry your experiences were so negative. I can sympathize with you from my own experience. Many wards have someone who seems to go out of their way to offend others because they think they are so righteous. I certainly believe the adage that the church is true but there is lots of room for doubt about some of the people.
If you miss the music listen to it on the church music site.
Thanks for your kind thoughts. I will check out the music site.
In the context of the above discussion I really appreciated Quinton L. Cooks quote.
“It is appropriate to disagree but not to be disagreeable”
Great quote.
Anonymous,
Again, you’re missing the point. If you listened to the context of Beck’s comments you would understand that he is referring to any institution that endorses social justice as he has defined it; a government enforced redistribution of wealth. Can you show me anywhere in the history of the world where government mandated equality led to a predominance of good over a long period of time? At any rate, a prime example of an extremist church Beck is referring to is that of Obama’s now former church led by Jeremiah Wright.
You stated that Beck is “intolerant, closed minded, extremist, fear mongering, and irrationally militant†and that he doesn’t “have any compassion and understanding of people of different views and seems to target people who are compassionate and tolerant and broad minded.†What examples can you cite to support those claims? It’s amazing that Beck, someone who doesn’t “have any compassionâ€, gives 20% of his income to charity and gives up around another 50% in taxes. Not to mention the fact that he was once extremely poor and is a recovering drug addict and recovering alcoholic. I would be careful to pass judgment without all the facts. In light of these things he may have a little more compassion and understanding than you give him credit for.
My example would be Glen Beck tells a member of the Catholic or a Baptist congregation to leave their church if they even mention social justice. He doesn’t ask them to clarify what the term means but if you hear the word social justice just leave your church. That is what I find intolerant, closed minded, extremist, fear mongering, irrational, and militant. It shows no compassion for these good people. I believe the bible teaches a certain amount of social justice. This is my complaint about Beck. He should trust people enough with their own freedom to make their own informed choices. If he presented a balanced approach that would be helpful.
Almost all governments redistribute wealth to some degree. I am not in favor of bailouts to wealthy companies who don’t play by their own rules and who were reckless and irresponsible and profited from your misery. But to ensure that all Americans have access to health care is very noble.
I am ignorant about Becks background and I know very little about him. If he dug himself out of a whole great for him. I do not dislike Beck as a person but some of the rhetoric from these extreme right wingers is not helping political dialogue in your country it is too divisive.
Here in Canada I pay about 1/3 to 1/2 of my income in taxes. It sucks but I am willing to pay some taxes to ensure others receive a hand up when they need it. Compared to most of the world I pay lots of tax but I also have a very high standard of living.
I get that Beck is passionate and believes he is standing up for his freedom and his rights which is commendable.
I can not show you anywhere in the history of the world where government mandated equality led to a predominance of good but can you show me anywhere in history that has been such a disaster as the Bush era with his waging wars he lied about, letting capitalism running wild and getting the world into this financial crisis. Greed, greed, greed…. a deadly sin.
Obama did not cause the financial crisis he is picking up the pieces. If your country would spend as much on helping its citizens as it does waging war and maintaining its empire you would have a much higher standard of living an possibly lower taxes.
It seems the same people who don’t want to pay taxes also support the war strongly. Billions and billions and billions to achieve what in Iraq. What was the threat anyways….? Where are the weapons of mass destruction. Not to mention your country has more weapons of mass destruction than any other nation. Why the exclusive club? Why can’t North Korea have just one small missile?
Obama, thankfully is trying to limit the numbers of these weapons of mass destruction. Another good and moral thing Obama has done. A refreshing change.
America is a big hypocrite about freedom, they want it all. They exert their influence in ways that oppress other nations. The IMF and world bank are shameful institutions. America no longer seems like the place to learn about freedom in my opinion. If I lived in the third world I would be very dubious about American democracy. America has lost its way. It has no moral high ground to stand on anymore.
O boy I sound hateful and anti-American but look around the world. You are in many ways a nation with the most potential to do good but you blow it time and time again.
I know many Americans, I like Americans, I don’t like the political discourse in your country it is too dogmatic and extremist. America was a great country but I have my doubts about its current state.
I understand you grew up on an Indian Reservation. Here in Canada we had these horrible things called Residential Schools run by some churches. We tried to assimilate the first nations of this country. If this is why you staunchly defend freedom I fully agree with you. What happened to the first peoples of my country was and continues to be shameful. By being so paternalistic we ruined their traditional skills and society.
I don’t see this a problem of socialism though. Many native bands in Canada, are breaking this cycle of dependence and are becoming skilled in business. Many are taking their rightful place in the political, social and economic life of Canada.
I hope the future is brighter for these first peoples of Canada and the North.
Here here and loud applause. Most of the debt we have was racked up by GW Bush. In second place, Ronald Reagan, in third place Barack Obma, and 4th is GHW Bush. Clinton left a surplus. All of the money for Iraq and Afghanistan (Bush clearly and absolutely lied about WMD to get us into that war) was borrowed during the Bush Administration. The one trillion dollar bank bailout was under Bush. As someone who is half Canadian and half American, I loudly applaud your post. People screaming about the health care reform passed in this country include my mother, who lives in Canada (as a citizen) precisely so she can partake of Canada’s excellent system, which has a 92 percent approval rating from the Canadian people, who BTW, don’t the have financial mess we have left by Bush. I hope and pray every day that the lunatic Glen Beck keeps it up, loud and clear until the publicity for the Mormon Church becomes so bad that he is finally told by ‘the Brethren’ to shut up. He will continue to bring bad publicity to the Mormon Church and to ruin Mitt Romney’s political chances. Keep it up Glen!!!
Anonymous,
First and foremost, I want you to know that from your writings I get the impression you are a good person with good intentions and I’ve enjoyed our back-and-forth. Within the Church I’ve found that when people challenge my beliefs that is when I experience my greatest growth in education. This further strengthens my convictions.
As for Glenn Beck, I want to reiterate that I do not agree with everything he says, nor do I look to him as an authoritative Church leader. I think it’s also important to understand that he has said repeatedly that he is in opinion show host. In fact, the intro to his radio show subtitles “The Glenn Beck Program†as “The Fusion of Entertainment and Enlightenment.†His is an entertainer. That said I feel like we’re running in place on this social justice argument. You’re still taking his initial comments out of context. If you truly believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true Church then you are admitting that the other churches, while definitely contributing good to the world, are manmade institutions and as a result could in theory adopt a corrupt policy resembling Glenn Beck’s personal definition of social justice. Do you agree that the ideal Glenn Beck uses to define social justice is a bad policy? If you are truly open-minded you will take 2 minutes to watch this clip, which will add context to Beck’s comments: .
There are people here in the US that are advocating policy like the Fairness Doctrine, which would “force†stations to provide opposing viewpoints. If it’s a public station that taxpayers fund I agree, but when you tell private enterprises that they have to give equal airtime to both sides it sounds like a limit on free speech. When you say Beck needs to present a balanced approach what does that mean? Why can’t he exercise his right to free speech on a privately owned station?
There are countries throughout the world that have socialized medicine and yet, when people can afford it they come to the United States to get treatment, including your Prime Minister. Why is that?
In the US Medicare and Medicaid represent some of the socialized healthcare we already have. When I was an intern at a healthcare facility they would not accept Medicare and Medicaid patients, and it goes that way for many doctors and facilities. The reason is that these programs are so far in debt they can’t afford to pay the doctors reasonably for their services. It is so bad that if a doctor were to take only Medicare and Medicaid patients he would not be able to pay his or her bills and would go out of business. The healthcare bill cuts Medicaid funding even further, and then takes that program, which can’t even take care of our elderly population and expands it to the entire US population. How will that work?
Lastly on healthcare, the healthcare reform bill was well over 2,000 pages long. The lawmakers weren’t allowed to read it until 72 hours before they had to vote on it. Here is what our Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said about the bill before its passage. Did you know a piece of education reform was thrown into it? Did you know there is a loophole that will not keep premium hikes from taking place as Obama had promised: Maybe Diane Feinstein (see quote at top of article) should have read the bill before she voted for it. Maybe you should understand it before you call it noble.
You can’t be serious. You want me to show you something worse than Bush? How about Mao Tse-tung from communist China? Historians say he is responsible for upwards of 70 million deaths. That’s twice as many people as there are in all of Canada. Ever heard of the Holodomor? Joseph Stalin starved 7 million Ukrainians in one year! That’s 25,000 people a day. Read this quote: “”We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens.” Sounds like forced redistribution of wealth. Did I mention the author of that quote is Adolf Hitler? I’ve said it before, capitalism has its warts, but without the ingenuity and resources it produced you would probably be speaking German today. Capitalism has produced an America that gives away $300 billion a year for charity. No, that’s not the government, that’s from the pockets of the American worker. There are 154 countries in the world that don’t even have a GDP above $400 billion annually. The US gives away around $25 billion a year in foreign aid, about twice what any other country does. Not to mention the billions upon billions we spend helping out people who have fallen on hard times here in the US. If these socialist and communist systems are so great why when Haitians leave their country do they not cross the border into the Dominican Republic? Why don’t they take their raft to Puerto Rico or Turks & Caicos or Jamaica or Cuba? Why do they go all the way to Florida?
I agree, Obama did not create the financial crisis, but he is only perpetuating it by encouraging more reckless spending. Did you know that Obama’s 2011 budget proposal shows a $1.6 trillion deficit? That means he has a budget showing what’s coming in and he has $1.6 trillion more going out than what’s coming in. The crazy thing? The Iraq war makes up about 4% of the total proposed budget. There is plenty of other spending that would be much better served by staying in the pockets of reasonable citizens than it would going to corrupt politicians. By the way, Glenn Beck spoke out very strongly against Bush and I disagreed with a lot of his policies so nice try. You might have known that about Beck if you’d done your homework.
You should be grateful that the country with the biggest stick isn’t North Korea or Iran or Cuba or China. Be grateful that the country with the biggest stick, while imperfect and definitely having abused its power at times, has not tried to take over the world. Read your history books. Most if not all former nations of great power tried to take over the world. Even our peaceful socialist friends across the Pond. Ever hear of the British Empire?
You know what, you’re right. America right now is not the example of freedom it once was. America has lost its way and our morals are despicable. And this administration’s policies are only accelerating the demise.
As for the Indian Reservation my dad is on their Tribal Council. I do know the history of what we did to these peoples and it is terrible. I also know that our tribe is one of the most successful in the United States and they are moving further and further away from the enabling, handout, socialist policies that promote apathy and stifle motivation.
I too hope the future is brighter, but a lot must change. To bring it back to General Conference I have two points. If we live what was taught the first weekend of April by those called of the Lord we will have a bright future. I also think it’s interesting that Conference after Conference has taught us that it is the Lord’s will that we be self-sufficient. Socialism does the exact opposite of promoting self-sufficiency. It promotes dependence, like an addiction.
Anonymous,
First and foremost, I want you to know that from your writings I get the impression you are a good person with good intentions and I’ve enjoyed our back-and-forth. Within the Church I’ve found that when people challenge my beliefs that is when I experience my greatest growth in education. This further strengthens my convictions.
As for Glenn Beck, I want to reiterate that I do not agree with everything he says, nor do I look to him as an authoritative Church leader. I think it’s also important to understand that he has said repeatedly that he is in opinion show host. In fact, the intro to his radio show subtitles “The Glenn Beck Program†as “The Fusion of Entertainment and Enlightenment.†His is an entertainer. That said I feel like we’re running in place on this social justice argument. You’re still taking his initial comments out of context. If you truly believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true Church then you are admitting that the other churches, while definitely contributing good to the world, are manmade institutions and as a result could in theory adopt a corrupt policy resembling Glenn Beck’s personal definition of social justice. Do you agree that the ideal Glenn Beck uses to define social justice is a bad policy? If you are truly open-minded you will take 2 minutes to watch this clip, which will add context to Beck’s comments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6abZBA21Oxw.
There are people here in the US that are advocating policy like the Fairness Doctrine, which would “force†stations to provide opposing viewpoints. If it’s a public station that taxpayers fund I agree, but when you tell private enterprises that they have to give equal airtime to both sides it sounds like a limit on free speech. When you say Beck needs to present a balanced approach what does that mean? Why can’t he exercise his right to free speech on a privately owned station?
There are countries throughout the world that have socialized medicine and yet, when people can afford it they come to the United States to get treatment, including your Prime Minister. Why is that?
In the US Medicare and Medicaid represent some of the socialized healthcare we already have. When I was an intern at a healthcare facility they would not accept Medicare and Medicaid patients, and it goes that way for many doctors and facilities. The reason is that these programs are so far in debt they can’t afford to pay the doctors reasonably for their services. It is so bad that if a doctor were to take only Medicare and Medicaid patients he would not be able to pay his or her bills and would go out of business. The healthcare bill cuts Medicaid funding even further, and then takes that program, which can’t even take care of our elderly population and expands it to the entire US population. How will that work?
Lastly on healthcare, the healthcare reform bill was well over 2,000 pages long. The lawmakers weren’t allowed to read it until 72 hours before they had to vote on it. Here is what our Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said about the bill before its passage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU. Did you know a piece of education reform was thrown into it? Did you know there is a loophole that will not keep premium hikes from taking place as Obama had promised: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/13/nation/la-na-health-premiums13-2010apr13? Maybe Diane Feinstein (see quote at top of article) should have read the bill before she voted for it. Maybe you should understand it before you call it noble.
You can’t be serious. You want me to show you something worse than Bush? How about Mao Tse-tung from communist China? Historians say he is responsible for upwards of 70 million deaths. That’s twice as many people as there are in all of Canada. Ever heard of the Holodomor? Joseph Stalin starved 7 million Ukrainians in one year! That’s 25,000 people a day. Read this quote: “”We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens.” Sounds like forced redistribution of wealth. Did I mention the author of that quote is Adolf Hitler? I’ve said it before, capitalism has its warts, but without the ingenuity and resources it produced you would probably be speaking German today. Capitalism has produced an America that gives away $300 billion a year for charity. No, that’s not the government, that’s from the pockets of the American worker. There are 154 countries in the world that don’t even have a GDP above $400 billion annually. The US gives away around $25 billion a year in foreign aid, about twice what any other country does. Not to mention the billions upon billions we spend helping out people who have fallen on hard times here in the US. If these socialist and communist systems are so great why when Haitians leave their country do they not cross the border into the Dominican Republic? Why don’t they take their raft to Puerto Rico or Turks & Caicos or Jamaica or Cuba? Why do they go all the way to Florida?
I agree, Obama did not create the financial crisis, but he is only perpetuating it by encouraging more reckless spending. Did you know that Obama’s 2011 budget proposal shows a $1.6 trillion deficit? That means he has a budget showing what’s coming in and he has $1.6 trillion more going out than what’s coming in. The crazy thing? The Iraq war makes up about 4% of the total proposed budget. There is plenty of other spending that would be much better served by staying in the pockets of reasonable citizens than it would going to corrupt politicians. By the way, Glenn Beck spoke out very strongly against Bush and I disagreed with a lot of his policies so nice try. You might have known that about Beck if you’d done your homework.
You should be grateful that the country with the biggest stick isn’t North Korea or Iran or Cuba or China. Be grateful that the country with the biggest stick, while imperfect and definitely having abused its power at times, has not tried to take over the world. Read your history books. Most if not all former nations of great power tried to take over the world. Even our peacekeeping socialist friends across the Pond. Ever hear of the British Empire?
You know what, you’re right. America right now is not the example of freedom it once was. America has lost its way and our morals are despicable. And this administration’s policies are only accelerating the demise.
As for the Indian Reservation my dad is on their Tribal Council. I do know the history of what we did to these peoples and it is terrible. I also know that our tribe is one of the most successful in the United States and they are moving further and further away from the enabling, handout, socialist policies that promote apathy and stifle motivation.
I too hope the future is brighter, but a lot must change.
To not totally abandon General Conference I have two points. If we live what was taught the first weekend of April by those called of the Lord we will have a bright future. I also think it’s interesting that Conference after Conference has taught us that it is the Lord’s will that we be self-sufficient. Socialism does the exact opposite of promoting self-sufficiency. It promotes dependence, like an addiction.
Anonymous,
First and foremost, I want you to know that from your writings I get the impression you are a good person with good intentions and I’ve enjoyed our back-and-forth. Within the Church I’ve found that when people challenge my beliefs that is when I experience my greatest growth in education. This further strengthens my convictions.
As for Glenn Beck, I want to reiterate that I do not agree with everything he says, nor do I look to him as an authoritative Church leader. I think it’s also important to understand that he has said repeatedly that he is in opinion show host. In fact, the intro to his radio show subtitles “The Glenn Beck Program†as “The Fusion of Entertainment and Enlightenment.†His is an entertainer. That said I feel like we’re running in place on this social justice argument. You’re still taking his initial comments out of context. If you truly believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true Church then you are admitting that the other churches, while definitely contributing good to the world, are manmade institutions and as a result could in theory adopt a corrupt policy resembling Glenn Beck’s personal definition of social justice. Do you agree that the ideal Glenn Beck uses to define social justice is a bad policy? If you are truly open-minded you will take 2 minutes to watch this clip, which will add context to Beck’s comments: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6abZBA21Oxw.
There are people here in the US that are advocating policy like the Fairness Doctrine, which would “force†stations to provide opposing viewpoints. If it’s a public station that taxpayers fund I agree, but when you tell private enterprises that they have to give equal airtime to both sides it sounds like a limit on free speech. When you say Beck needs to present a balanced approach what does that mean? Why can’t he exercise his right to free speech on a privately owned station?
There are countries throughout the world that have socialized medicine and yet, when people can afford it they come to the United States to get treatment, including your Prime Minister. Why is that?
In the US Medicare and Medicaid represent some of the socialized healthcare we already have. When I was an intern at a healthcare facility they would not accept Medicare and Medicaid patients, and it goes that way for many doctors and facilities. The reason is that these programs are so far in debt they can’t afford to pay the doctors reasonably for their services. It is so bad that if a doctor were to take only Medicare and Medicaid patients he would not be able to pay his or her bills and would go out of business. The healthcare bill cuts Medicaid funding even further, and then takes that program, which can’t even take care of our elderly population and expands it to the entire US population. How will that work?
Lastly on healthcare, the healthcare reform bill was well over 2,000 pages long. The lawmakers weren’t allowed to read it until 72 hours before they had to vote on it. Here is what our Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said about the bill before its passage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU. Did you know a piece of education reform was thrown into it? Did you know there is a loophole that will not keep premium hikes from taking place as Obama had promised: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/13/nation/la-na-health-premiums13-2010apr13? Maybe Diane Feinstein (see quote at top of article) should have read the bill before she voted for it. Maybe you should understand it before you call it noble. Continued…
Zachary Pitts,
It’s good to see recent attempts at posts. I wonder if they were to congratulate me on my previous posts.
I only have 2 things to say. If the American system is so great how come you are so upset with the results.
I wish Glen Beck would find out what he believes.
The 11th article of faith states “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”
Let people worship how they may even if it includes teaching social justice. And allow these good people the rights provided by the US constitution for the free exercise of religion.
This is what we claimed on Prop 8 and what Dalin H Oaks has recently spoke for, the constitutional right for the free exercise of religion.
We can only claim for ourselves rights we also allow to others.
Ok Anonymous at this point I feel compelled to say something. Why is it that freedom of speech is only available to those who spout a leftist agenda? Seriously how is Glenn Beck restricting anyone’s freedom to exercise religion? By all means criticize his position, I do all the time, but in reality just like it is your right to call him an idiot it is his right to call for people to speak out against social justice. It is even his right to ask people not to join organizations, and religions that promote social justice.
I realize that the following is a generalization and probably does not follow the character of all Leftist vs. Rightwing thinkers but I think it makes a very interesting point.
If a conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn`t buy one.
If a liberal doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.
If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn`t eat meat.
If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.
If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.
If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.
If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Liberals demand that those they don’t like be shut down.
If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.
A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.
If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his.
Tyler M.. that is so well said! That is why so many liberals bother me and I couldn’t articulate it until now! Thank you
I am not really that liberal. In Canada I would almost be conservative.
Deal with my ideas and quit the labeling me a liberal. What great thing will George Bush be remembered for? What good policy has he implemented and how is the world a better place after his presidency?
Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly do not represent the majority of good hardworking conservatives in your country. They are extremists. I admit the radical left has the same problem.
It is the self righteous attitude of many conservatives I dislike. The Christian right often comes across as anything but Christian. Too often they come across as angry and unpleasant.
Your liberal conservative comparison is a little amusing but you are making my point. The world isn’t divided into neat little columns with conservatives always right and liberals always well intentioned but misguided supporting big government. Lets look at the facts. As my good friend and sane minded colleage ExMoHoMoDon reminded us BIG GOVERNMENT FLOURISHES UNDER CONSERVATIVE ADMINISTRATIONS. IT IS IRONIC BUT THE FACTS BEAR IT OUT.
My main beef with Beck is religious not political.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/2010/03/Glenn-Beck-Versus-Social-Justice.aspx
Read this … finally I don’t feel so alone.
Anonymous,
I did try to post three times, all the same post. I also tried to post the word Test. Not sure if I’m being censored or if I had too many links. So, I am re-posting with references to the links and then I will post the links in their separate postings below. I even sent an email to Our Thoughts, but haven’t heard back. At any rate, I won’t try to address your response to my failed responses at this time, but I did go through your previous response and commented point-by-point. You’ll see that in a few areas I even agreed with you.
First and foremost, I want you to know that from your writings I get the impression you are a good person with good intentions and I’ve enjoyed our back-and-forth. Within the Church I’ve found that when people challenge my beliefs that is when I experience my greatest growth in education. This further strengthens my convictions.
As for Glenn Beck, I want to reiterate that I do not agree with everything he says, nor do I look to him as an authoritative Church leader. I think it’s also important to understand that he has said repeatedly that he is in opinion show host. In fact, the intro to his radio show subtitles “The Glenn Beck Program†as “The Fusion of Entertainment and Enlightenment.†His is an entertainer. That said I feel like we’re running in place on this social justice argument. You’re still taking his initial comments out of context. If you truly believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true Church then you are admitting that the other churches, while definitely contributing good to the world, are manmade institutions and as a result could in theory adopt a corrupt policy resembling Glenn Beck’s personal definition of social justice. Do you agree that the ideal Glenn Beck uses to define social justice is a bad policy? If you are truly open-minded you will take 2 minutes to watch this clip, which will add context to Beck’s comments: (Link #1).
There are people here in the US that are advocating policy like the Fairness Doctrine, which would “force†stations to provide opposing viewpoints. If it’s a public station that taxpayers fund I agree, but when you tell private enterprises that they have to give equal airtime to both sides it sounds like a limit on free speech. When you say Beck needs to present a balanced approach what does that mean? Why can’t he exercise his right to free speech on a privately owned station?
There are countries throughout the world that have socialized medicine and yet, when people can afford it they come to the United States to get treatment, including your Prime Minister. Why is that?
In the US Medicare and Medicaid represent some of the socialized healthcare we already have. When I was an intern at a healthcare facility they would not accept Medicare and Medicaid patients, and it goes that way for many doctors and facilities. The reason is that these programs are so far in debt they can’t afford to pay the doctors reasonably for their services. It is so bad that if a doctor were to take only Medicare and Medicaid patients he would not be able to pay his or her bills and would go out of business. The healthcare bill cuts Medicaid funding even further, and then takes that program, which can’t even take care of our elderly population and expands it to the entire US population. How will that work?
Lastly on healthcare, the healthcare reform bill was well over 2,000 pages long. The lawmakers weren’t allowed to read it until 72 hours before they had to vote on it. Here is what our Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said about the bill before its passage: (Link #2). Did you know a piece of education reform was thrown into it? Did you know there is a loophole that will not keep premium hikes from taking place as Obama had promised: (Link #3)? Maybe Diane Feinstein (see quote at top of article) should have read the bill before she voted for it. Maybe you should understand it before you call it noble.
You can’t be serious. You want me to show you something worse than Bush? How about Mao Tse-tung from communist China? Historians say he is responsible for upwards of 70 million deaths. That’s twice as many people as there are in all of Canada. Ever heard of the Holodomor? Joseph Stalin starved 7 million Ukrainians in one year! That’s 25,000 people a day. Read this quote: “”We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens.” Sounds like forced redistribution of wealth. Did I mention the author of that quote is Adolf Hitler? I’ve said it before, capitalism has its warts, but without the ingenuity and resources it produced you would probably be speaking German today. Capitalism has produced an America that gives away $300 billion a year for charity. No, that’s not the government, that’s from the pockets of the American worker. There are 154 countries in the world that don’t even have a GDP above $400 billion annually. The US gives away around $25 billion a year in foreign aid, about twice what any other country does. Not to mention the billions upon billions we spend helping out people who have fallen on hard times here in the US. If these socialist and communist systems are so great why when Haitians leave their country do they not cross the border into the Dominican Republic? Why don’t they take their raft to Puerto Rico or Turks & Caicos or Jamaica or Cuba? Why do they go all the way to Florida?
I agree, Obama did not create the financial crisis, but he is only perpetuating it by encouraging more reckless spending. Did you know that Obama’s 2011 budget proposal shows a $1.6 trillion deficit? That means he has a budget showing what’s coming in and he has $1.6 trillion more going out than what’s coming in. The crazy thing? The Iraq war makes up about 4% of the total proposed budget. There is plenty of other spending that would be much better served by staying in the pockets of reasonable citizens than it would going to corrupt politicians. By the way, Glenn Beck spoke out very strongly against Bush and I disagreed with a lot of his policies so nice try. You might have known that about Beck if you’d done your homework.
You should be grateful that the country with the biggest stick isn’t North Korea or Iran or Cuba or China. Be grateful that the country with the biggest stick, while imperfect and definitely having abused its power at times, has not tried to take over the world. Read your history books. Most if not all former nations of great power tried to take over the world. Even our peaceful socialist friends across the Pond. Ever hear of the British Empire?
You know what, you’re right. America right now is not the example of freedom it once was. America has lost its way and our morals are despicable. And this administration’s policies are only accelerating the demise.
As for the Indian Reservation my dad is on their Tribal Council. I do know the history of what we did to these peoples and it is terrible. I also know that our tribe is one of the most successful in the United States and they are moving further and further away from the enabling, handout, socialist policies that promote apathy and stifle motivation.
I too hope the future is brighter, but a lot must change. In closing, circling back to General Conference I have two comments. If we live what was taught the first weekend of April by those called of the Lord we will have a bright future. I also think it’s interesting that Conference after Conference has taught us that it is the Lord’s will that we be self-sufficient. Socialism does the exact opposite of promoting self-sufficiency. It promotes dependence, like an addiction.
Link #1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6abZBA21Oxw
Link#2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU
Link #3: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr/13/nation/la-na-health-premiums13-2010apr13
Zachary Pitts
I don’t have much time right now. I must rush off to a meeting and I can’t watch your clips right now. I am going away for the weekend but I appreciate the tone of your last post, it is open minded and presents some facts I am unaware of. Your post is respectful and a pleasure to read. You are not what I dislike so much about Beck. A very fair and balanced post in my opinion.
Have a great day.