Comments on: Do visions wear you out? https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/ Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues. Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:38:05 +0000 hourly 1 By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-66133 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:38:05 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-66133 Your comment had nothing to with the topic, and was only about questioning rick’s motives. Anyhow, let’s get back to the topic shall we?

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-66012 Thu, 31 Jul 2008 04:27:35 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-66012 Kim, I’ve never thought giving a direct response to another person’s comment was “threadjacking.” Unless you’re threadjacking by talking about whether Lehi’s vision could have been a hallucination induced by fatigue–as you have done–then I don’t see why my comment on the very same topic is “threadjacking.” I’ve tried to present my view on why that idea doesn’t make sense–whether you believe the Book of Mormon is true or whether you believe it’s false.

The reason I presented the two choices the way I did is that I thought it clearly and fairly represented the actual positions taken by me and by rick.

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-64634 Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:37:45 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-64634 Of course you disagree with me. I wouldn’t expect anything less.

At first the dichotomy was “the Book of Mormon is a true work of scripture brought forth by divine intervention, or your position is right and the Book of Mormon is a work of pure fiction brought forth by unscrupulous men seeking power over others.” Now you’ve simplified it to whether it’s a fraud or not. You created it because there are other scenarios (the book is fiction brought forth by divine intervention, for example). Nevertheless, this isn’t really the post for this discussion

Ltbugaf, you’re the only one who’s discussing these issues, and they have nothing to do with the topic. As per the commenting policy, please refrain from threadjacking.

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-64507 Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:10:49 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-64507 I also disagree with you that I’ve created a dichotomy. The dichotomy between whether the Book of Mormon is a fraud or not exists by itself. As near as I can tell, you can’t have both so it’s not a false dichotomy, and there isn’t some third choice so it’s not a false dilemma. It’s a true dichotomy and not one of my making.

And either choice, fraud or truth, seems to lead away from the idea that Lehi’s vision could be a hallucination induced by fatigue.

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-64341 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:38:38 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-64341 I think you’re reading too much into this, ltbugaf. I’ll leave it to Rick to explain his comment, but all I see is someone offering a possibility.

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-64230 Thu, 24 Jul 2008 03:32:23 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-64230 No. But rick doesn’t seem to be talking about the moral implications of events and characters in a fictional work. As near as I can tell, he’s asking people who believe Lehi to be a real person why they don’t think Lehi’s vision was a hallucination caused by repetitive prayers. I can’t see anything in his comment about moral implications. What I see is a question about what really caused an event that rick claims didn’t really happen. That just doesn’t make sense.

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-63817 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:33:21 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-63817 ltbugaf,

Your creation of a dichotomy doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying people shouldn’t discuss the moral implications of events and characters in fictional works?

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-63703 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:00:28 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-63703 This page: http://www.dcsites.com/dc003.htm

And this page: http://www.boap.org/LDS/History/HTMLHistory/v1c18history.html
(See footnote 23)

tell the story of Sidney Rigdon being physically worn out by the experience of receiving “The Vision” recorded in Doctrine & Covenants 76, with Joseph Smith.

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-63702 Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:53:05 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-63702 Rick, I don’t think there’s much logic in your post. There are two possibilities: Either my position is right and the Book of Mormon is a true work of scripture brought forth by divine intervention, or your position is right and the Book of Mormon is a work of pure fiction brought forth by unscrupulous men seeking power over others.

If my position is right, and the Book of Mormon was brought to us through the power of God, then it seems to me that it makes little sense to think God would have gone to such trouble to bring us the record of a people led by a man who merely tired himself into a hallucination, rather than a true vision.

If your position is right, and the Book of Mormon is false, then Lehi is a fictional character who never had any visions. It makes no sense to talk about what could have been the actual cause of a vision that never happened. It’s like asking whether Snow White’s decision to marry a prince she had met only once before was motivated by a dislike for dwarfs.

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By: Mary Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2008/06/17/do-visions-wear-you-out/comment-page-1/#comment-58517 Wed, 18 Jun 2008 19:01:21 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=1360#comment-58517 I would agree with SS, spiritual experiences can take a lot out of you and thus be physically exhausting.

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