Kirby Heyborne (Singles Ward, RM, The Best Two Years, Saints and Soldiers) recently acted in a commercial for US brewer Miller. Here’s the video:
Any thoughts?
Kirby Heyborne Beer Commercial
233 thoughts on “Kirby Heyborne Beer Commercial”
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Wow!
Not sure if I answered you? Yes, the company is an alcohol company, but I have to wonder (as I keep asking) why Kirby is being held to a higher standard than other members of the church. I can’t count how many people work in gas stations which sell cigarettes (just as verboten as alcohol), or work in casinos or restaurants where alcohol is served.
But we might argue that eating healthy is just as important (as it seems to signify in D &C 89) as abstaining from alcohol and cigarettes, but people certainly aren’t dragged over the coals for eating at fast food restaurants. Quite the opposite actually, as youth activities often end up at Wendy’s or McDonald’s.
Still haven’t.
My question isn’t about what other people are doing. Nor is it about the effects of the word of wisdom. It’s about how he could answer the temple recommend question honestly.
I have no problem with anybody appearing in any sort of commercial for anything. I have no problem with people drinking beer (unless they choose to drive thereafter with a blood alcohol level over the legal limit).
Mr. Heyborne talks about supporting his family. I have no problem with that either, even if he were to star in a porn film as the “Main Talent”. That’s his choice.
My issue is with his lack of honesty.
He claims that by being an actor in this commercial, he still thinks of himself worthy to hold a temple recommend.
One of the questions one is asked in a temple recommend interview is:
“Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?”
So, first I’ll ask, does the Miller brewing company have any teachings or practices contrary to or oppose those accepted by the COJCOLDS?
I’m pretty sure any reasonable person, knowing the teachings and practices of the LDS church and the product line of the Miller brewing company would answer yes. If I’m wrong, please, show me how.
Assuming we all agree on that, the next question is whether or not Mr. Heyborne supports, affiliates with, or agrees with the Miller Brewing company.
My understanding is yes. He hits at least two out of three. I argue that he supports and affiliates with them.
By definition, he supports them:
“to maintain (a person, family, establishment, institution, etc.) by supplying with things necessary to existence; provide for”
By assisting them in advertising their product, he provides them with the revenue necessary for corporate existence. That’s why they advertise. Without advertising, they risk going broke.
By definition, he affiliates with them:
“to associate oneself; be intimately united in action or interest”
His association and affiliation with their produce creates brand recognition, aiding in the advertisment of their product.
Although those words have other meanings as well, his association fits within a reasonable definition of those terms.
You can’t appear in a beer commercial, promote the product, entice other people to buy and consume it, and answer no to that temple recommend question in good conscience.
In all his interviews, if he would have just left out the temple recommend bit, there’d be no problem.
Two comments.
First off. I don’t know where you keep getting that question, but none of my bishops have ever asked that exact question.
Secondly, you state:
What makes you think he didn’t answer the question honestly (even if it was the one you assert)? None of us on here have any idea what he said when his bishop asked the question, so we really have no accurate way of determining how honest he was in answering the question.
Like I said I would do if I were in his position, it is entirely possible he said neither yes or no. It is possible when asked the question, he simply explained the situation and let the bishop make the judgement call on whether he met the requirements of that part of the interview.
Of course, as I said already, I wasn’t present, so I have no idea of knowing whether he responded in that way. I am left to speculate, and simply offer it as one possible explanation.
Which of course brings me back to the point I have made several times above. It’s not up to me to determine how he was able to get his temple recommend while being in the commercial. But he did, so it must be possible. It’s not up to me to determine whether what he did was wrong. On both counts, it’s between him and the Lord (or the bishop in the case of the recommend).
We can speculate all we want. I mean, maybe he was dishonest, and he has a corrupt bishop who is letting the dishonesty slip under the table. Maybe he’s giving the bishop a payoff from his huge salary.
The bottom line though is that this is between Kirby and the Lord. If he’s worked it out with the Lord, then who am I to judge further?
Then why ask what we think about the situation?
In answer to JM I have to agree with the fact that no one knows or at least should not know what took place or what may have been said between Kirby and his Bishop during Kirby’s Temple recommend review.
This is a very private interview But I cannot think for one minute that the Bishop would be anything other than an honest person serving in this calling.And lets remember it is not just his decision.
Kirby still had to talk with the Stake Presidency. Or Maybe they are all unworthy of their callings also.PLEASE!
This whole issue is between Kirby and Heavenly Father and as I said in #71 The Church does teach forgiveness!
JM
So he could generate discussion (and look at that, it worked).
I concur with Kim, which was my point right from the start.
To generate discussion. I apologize for not making that clearer.
I asked for the thoughts of the readers, and they provided them (you included).
I don’t see how his decision’s being between him and the Lord negates anyone discussing what he did. Certainly much of what we discussed in more than 100 comments hasn’t been covered in any news article.
I think there is value in much of what has been discussed.
Re: 102:
Corbin Allred, who also appeared in Saints and Soldiers as well as another LDS-themed film with Kirby Heyborne, was in a Wendy’s commercial as a lucky fellow “stuck in the middle” between two beautiful women while eating his bacon double cheeseburger. Is that on par with the Miller Lite ad given your interpretation of D & C 89?
But if either of them had appeared in the Wendy’s “Air Supply Burger” commercial, they’d be my heroes for life. Yuk, yuk, yuk.
By JM’s standards, can anyone answer that recommend interview question in the affirmative? Why just this morning, I bought a quart of oil from a gas station that sells alcohol and tobacco products. By so doing, I gave my support (in the total of $3.50) to an organization whose practices are contrary to the teachings of the church. Guess I’ll have to surrender my recommend to my bishop tonight. (I’ll have to walk to his house instead of drive, as I don’t know where I’m going to find gas ever again.) Can I go to the grocery store and buy food made by a large conglomerate that includes beer and tobacco companies? Hmmm. Probably need to expand my garden….
Next, I’ll have to review my mutual funds and make sure that the portfolios don’t have any investments in companies that make or sell tobacco or alcohol. While I’m at it, I should probably make sure that none of those companies make or sell bikinis, advertise or do other business on Sundays, or print or distribute any material that has profane language (just to name a few examples).
Where does it end?
Oh No! I just realized – I have to quit my job, as the company I work for provides internet services 24×7. I wonder if the boss will be willing to change the business plan to 24×6?
On the other hand, I clearly have been too lax in asking those questions when members of my ward ask me to renew their recommend.
OK, I’m done now….
:) My point, thanks Sedz (I take it you are in the Bishopric).
Though I don’t think JM was being critical.
The only thing more disturbing than Kirby Heyborne selling out to the U.S. brewery industry is his co-star from “Saints and Soldiers”, Larry Bagby, selling out to Kentucky Fried Chicken!
I don’t believe that anyone has “sold out”….they are doing their jobs. He hasn’t done anything wrong. (And I love how people are deciding what is right and wrong…or good and bad) Everyone knows that on their own. They don’t need someone else telling what is supposedly the difference.
Also, the whole temple recommend thing. I have never been to one an interview/ interrogation, however…I have heard some of the questions that are asked. Well, if you are going to get technical maybe no one should hold a recommend. Is anyone perfect??
I mean, come on Jesus drank wine, and probably with his 12 Homeboys to boot. Perhaps that carving should be removed from the temple in Cardston as well.
PS. I have no problem with Wine Drinkers to set the record straight.
(sarcasm alert!)Rriiight. Because we all agree on what is right and wrong/good and bad. That’s why there’s no need for law enforcement … or even laws!
For me, if I am not looking at the painting of the Savior on the wall and not welled up with gratitude and humility for my frailties by the last question, knowing full well that the only way I am worthy to enter the temple is through the atonement, then I can’t answer affirmatively.
I believe that the introspection is necessary when we consider the obedience required to obtain the blessings of the temple. Yes, we all fall short. But, the questions are intended to get us to determine our commitment to the Savior and his commandments.
Dar, the question isn’t about wine, it’s about our commitment. Are we willing to do all that we can do to keep the commandments? If we have done all we can do, we can rely on the atonement to make the difference. And if the person has had struggles, it is up to the Bishop and no one else to make that determination.
O.K. I admit it, I’m out of the loop! What is the KFC deal?
I think DPC is being tongue in cheek.
So here’s a related question, and it sort of goes back to what Tyler was asking. The contractor renovating our basement smokes. If we let him smoke, does that mean we are supporting someone whose practices are contrary to those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Is letting him smoke jeopardizing our having recommends?
Kim, it is my feeling that anyone who enters my home need respect my feelings of not Smoking in my home. I can’t control what they do away from my home but I feel I have a right to control what happens at my home. If not then I would check into a new contractor. It would not effect my recomend unless I encouraged him to smoke in the first place. Good Luck.
He doesn’t smoke in our home, he just smokes.
He’s a wonderful contractor and we wouldn’t want to lose him just because he smokes cigarettes.
Bull:
Actually, Law Enforcement is there to enforce the laws set. Not to tell people what is good or bad. People make decisions on their own, and know that if they make a bad choice there will be consequences.
People know that killing, stealing, and such is wrong (bad). However, some choose to do that. In a perfect world, people would focus more on the good, but…
We don’t need someone to tell us the difference.
It is all these little things in the LDS religion that someone is deciding are wrong/bad that gets me. This is not a bad thing.
We should all do things that we know or feel are good and right…not because someone says they are, or because they show “commitment”, or they will get us to a higher degree of glory, or because we are following some one’s example.
Don’t you all feel we have really milked this subject dry? We need to move on now!
All you have to do is not comment and go comment on another post. It isn’t the top post anymore.
It really isn’t our responsibility to pass judgement. That being said, we are all going to have feelings or opinions. I feel disappointed in this career choice. I understand needing to support a family, however – in my opinion, living your faith is priority number one if you are a member of the church. I know we must decide what is best for our family, however one doesn’t HAVE to be an actor. One also may choose to be an actor, and still perform other jobs in between acting jobs. Also, to those who compared this to playing a character in a movie – the difference is, a movie tells a story. In a commercial, you are helping a company to promote and sell their product. In this case a product which our faith tells us to avoid. I still like Kirby. I will still support his projects. It doesn’t mean I have to approve of every choice he makes in his life. I also still think he is a fine, upstanding member of the church.
Likewise, one doesn’t HAVE to be a doctor, and thus COULD avoid having to work Sundays. Same goes for police officers. Expounding on that idea, perhas there shouldn’t be any Mormon firefighters, paramedics, nurses or pilots. Pilots. Hmmm…I wonder if President Uchtdorf ever had a Sunday flight. For that matter, I wonder if any of President Uchtdorf’s flights served alcohol or showed R-rated movies. Would that consistent supporting someone whose practices are contrary to those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
Your comments might carry a little more weight if every profession/responsibility you named wasn’t completely incongruous with acting in a beer commercial. All the above named jobs are life-saving, humanity-serving professions which by their nature make them in line with the gospel of Jesus Christ, and which society couldn’t survive without, 24 hours a day. There isn’t a realistic alternative to flying the friendly skies in order to build the Kingdom. There is a realistic alternative to acting in a beer commercial when jobs are few and far between for an LDS actor. Again, none of us, including myself is in a position to judge. I still can feel disappointed, and have my opinion on what may have been a better choice.
I’m not saying they’re not important or life saving. I’m just pointing out that it’s not as simple as saying that Mormons shouldn’t take jobs that compromise principles. After all living our faith is priority number one. Saving lives shouldn’t take precedence over keeping the Sabbath holy, right?
But some non-essential examples could include grocers who sell cigarettes or alcohol, photographer who shoot bridal cleavage, and taxi drivers who work Sundays. The list goes on.
Saving lives is not breaking the sabbath. Even the Savior healed people on the Sabbath. Living our faith is priority number one, yes. Obviously serving mankind is one of the most Christ-like acts one can perform. Understanding the spirit of the law, not looking for how something might contradict the letter of the law is something we all must strive for.
Also, the other examples you named, grocer, photographer, etc., in my opinion are professions that either don’t need to be practiced in a way contrary to the teachings of the gospel, or if they must be – then should be avoided by Latter-day Saints. I happen to know from experience that it can be done. My husband and I own a service business. Ther is a market for our services on Sundays, most of our competitors provide this same service on Sunday. We have chosen to never do business on Sunday. We have lost several jobs to our competitors when someone has wanted to schedule us for a Sunday job. However, our business and our family has been abundantly blessed, and in our opinion this is a direct result of our commitment to run our business in accordance with the teachings of our church.
I am a toy sculptor, I am also a freelancer, which means sometimes I have to work more than I should in order to earn a living, I TRY, not to work on Sundays EVER. I also TRY not to take on any projects that compromise my principles, BUT sometimes I have had to work on Sundays, and sometimes I have had to sculpt super heroines with skin tight clothes, I also have plenty of anatomy books with naked people in them, and lots of reference for the nude male/female body. I have been criticized by fellow church members, saying that what I do is wrong, that taking life drawing classes with real models is wrong.
I do not see the human body the way most people do, I am an artist and as such I must learn every part of the human body.
I love my job, and you know? I know God is happy for me, he is pleased with the fact I provide for my own family, and am able to help people going on missions, and that I can provide 5 more people with work and I say this with the utmost humility.
Honestly… I would rather sculpt the life of Christ, or the Apostles…The Lord know that is my biggest desire, but although I gave it my best, I was never able to earn a living doing that.
I am NOT saying I defend either side of the coin, but I honestly think WE SHOULD NOT JUDGE Kirby. We do not know the reason behind his choice. It seems once we see someone make a mistake, or do something that is not “right” we are extremely quick to label them.
Am I going to hell because I have sculpted Dragon Ball Z characters that portray violence? I will be judged for many things… I just KNOW that won’t be one of them :)
Just my two cents.
-Erick Sosa
http://www.ericksosa.com
http://www.thesculptorscorner.com/Sosa.htm
By the way, I am 32 ( one year older than Kirby) I am married ( LA Temple) And I live in Los Angeles…and like Kirby says “”If I could do those for the rest of my life, and make enough money to support my family, I would do that in a heartbeat,” the Mormon film star said in a phone interview Monday. “But in reality, there’s no way.”
I would rather sculpt Mormon Missionaries action figures…but in reality, there’s no way ;)
mormonmama
For the record, my husband and I do not break the sabbath for our employment either and have declined to work on Sunday always. We have never felt the need to work Sundays, but don’t condemn those who choose to do so.
I agree with you Mary :)
But in 15 years I have been a sculptor and a member of the church, I have probably worked 3 times on the Sabbath.
I have two daughters btw, 3year old and a 3 month old, I know I must lead them by example :)
Erick
Sometimes the ox is in the mire!! :)
true :)
I come from a long line of law enforcement officers and health care providers in my family. We have had to work alot on Sundays. I can say that part of that work was provided by the breweries. Drunk drivers, family fights etc. Not only the officers and EMTs but the E.R Staff as well. We were there to care for those in need. On Sunday. And We did not get to go to church. But we still kept our faith.
I’m afraid that comparing law inforcement/health care workers etc. to actors in commercials just isn’t a valid comparison. If all the actors quit their jobs because they didn’t want to appear in beer commercials or work on Sunday, it really wouldn’t be a big loss, the same can’t be said of the other group.
No one was trying to make the comparison.
My grandfather once told me that the weeds always grow bigger in your own backyard. And the roots go deeper. As an LDS member, RM, BYU grad, etc, etc. I’m saddened that so many members, especially some of you on this blog, are so judgmental and quick to criticize. You should read Orson Scott Card’s article in rebuttal to the “news” of Kirby’s most unfortunate decision to thrust the “world view” of the LDS church into darkness. Yes…..that was sarcastic!!! Read the article and then get a life, please! Enjoy!
El Mero Mero
Most of the bloggers (actually contributers) you will see do NOT judge Kirby. The judgments are coming from commenters not affiliated with the blog.
I don’t judge kirby. I’m just a little dissapointed. I’m about to go on a mission, so when i saw “the best two years” for the first time i almost cried, because of the spirit i felt from that movie. Joseph Smith, and many other prophets have told us time and time again that our testimonies and example are what help bring the spirit and share the gospel. it just takes some integrity to say no to commercials like that. He has his free will, but the point is what he does with it. We are children of God first, not children of this temporal world.
i will still watch movies with him. he is really good. i don’t think anyone can disagree with me there.
“it takes some integrity” it sounds to me like you are judging his integrity..right?
Honestly , the guy is an actor, he had no money, and had prayed with his wife, he got an answer, it helped him support his family for half a year.
Listen, he just made a Hershey’s commercial, I hope people don’t start pointing the finger because he did that, because you know Chocolate contains Caffeine.
I myself am working on an Ironman toy, but maybe I should call Hasbro and say, “you know what I will not sculpt this toy because I cannot be a part of something that promotes violence, because Ironman does kill more than a couple of people in the movie ”
Not everything is black and white, there’s shades of grey. that is why we have the spirit of the law :) which should also be applied when judging as the Lord has commanded… be a righteous judge :)
I was honestly a bit disappointed myself, but then I realized maybe that was his only gig in months, and guess what it was.
Now that you are going on a mission you will realize that things are not just two shades, you will get to know people and their circumstances and you will learn to love them regardless of color, race, mistakes etc.
I love Kirby, and if I were to Meet him at the LA temple I would tell him he’s alright by me.
:)
As a follow-up to my comment at #112 (which was made tongue in cheek), Larry Bagby (or an actor who bears a striking resemblence) has recently starred (had a supporting role…?) in a commercial for Kentucky Fried Chicken.
I’m just worried that very soon Corbin Benson (another Saints and Soldiers actor)may end up in a commercial of some kind!
dpc…
“I’m just worried that very soon Corbin Benson (another Saints and Soldiers actor)may end up in a commercial of some kind!”
Why are you worried? What if he does do a commercial of “some kind”? What is it to you?
He is an actor. It is not your place to worry what jobs he takes.
He’s being sarcastic, Dar.
I would just like to know what everyone’s deffinition of “judging” is. It seems that there is a lot of disagreement on this, because people keep accusing each other, all throughout this blog, of “judging” Kirby.
I think this article by Elder Oaks offers A LOT of insights to the issue everyone is discussing. Check it out! http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=bd27ef960417b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
Well, I am not sure that it does. The issue we are discussing is whether we have a right to judge or condemn Kirby for this choice, not whether what he did was right or wrong. I don’t see where Elder Oaks told us it is ok to lambaste and vilify someone for their choice in employment. He is saying we should uphold our standards, which I agree with. But that doesn’t mean I should condemn someone for making a choice I would not necessarily make.
Kim, in answer to comment 64, I never said “picking up a bottle of beer or starring in a beer commercial” was breaking a commandment. I said having a beer would be a sin for me as a Latter-day Saint, and not for someone who isn’t under covenant to live the prohibitions of the Word of Wisdom.
I served my mission in the Dominican Republic from 95-97 with Kirby. He was not a good missionary. While in the final weeks of his mission there was some inappropiate behavior between Kirby and a sister missionary. When it was discovered she had her mission changed. He was already released by that time. One local member confided in me that her sister and another local member had made out with Kirby. There are many more mission rule violations which are attributed to him, even while serving as AP. There are many missionaries including myself who feel that he is responsible for ruining their mission experience.
Anonymous, hey, how are things? Drop me an email at roastedtomatoes at gmail dot com; we can catch up on gossip from the mission and since!
Anonymous (#147)
First of all, why would you even say this? Not only that, it’s only your word for it and you don’t even bother signing your name which leads me to think you are just promoting gossip. Whether Kirby made mistakes or not is not yours or mine or anyone else’s business. And one missionary cannot ruin your own experience. We are all responsible for our own attitudes and actions reactions. As long as you served the best you could that is what is important to you. Don’t blame him or anyone else for a bad mission experience. My husband had a companion who smoked (yes, while on his mission). And knew of other quirky missionaries, but that didn’t ruin his mission experience. He served as well as he could and was a wonderful missionary. So stop blaming someone else for your problems.
Really, it was absolutely unnecessary to say those things. That was 11-13 years ago and people are allowed to repent and move on with their lives without having their pasts brought up (if it is even true).
Mary, I agree that the anonymous accusation on a website isn’t a helpful forum for this sort of thing. Let me suggest, though, that there are huge differences in human experiences. Smoking on a mission is one thing, but one can imagine a lot worse. Some empathy for anonymous may perhaps be in order.