“O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who?Ǭ†drink of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.”
We were treated to this twice yesterday before our bishopric’s first counselor got up and pointed out the error to the frustrated, young priest.
?Ǭ†Then, we heard the following:
“O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat it in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.”
At which point the first counselor nodded his approval, not wanting to drag out the scene any more. (The bishop and?Ǭ†second counselor were away, so “Number One” was flying solo.)
After the sacrament was done and the Aaronic priesthood were dismissed, “Number One” felt inspired to give us a short, five minute talk about how valiant, and worthy, and diligent the young men were in performing their sacramental duty.?Ǭ† I think this was meant to somehow help the young priest save face, although it was just out of place and awkward to listen to.
But why go through all the effort of correcting him the first time, and why give the little speech at the end if you are?Ǭ†ultimately going to let the prayer be said incorrectly??Ǭ† What harm would there be to having him do it a fourth time, to hopefully get it right??Ǭ† Why was he more concerned about hurting the young fella’s feelings than getting the ordinance done correctly?
Which makes me wonder… does it really matter if the prayer was said correctly??Ǭ† If three wrong attempts are good enough, then surly two would have done the trick.?Ǭ† Did all 200 of us yesterday actually renew our covenants or did we just have a snack?
I don’t seem to have a problem with a small (grammatic) error as seen here. This same mistake was made twice last week in sacrament meeting in our ward, third time was corrected by the Priest reading the prayer more slowly. If I was presiding I’m not sure I would have required a repeat on this small error, of course that may be why I’m not in the Bishop rick.
This particular error, yes I would have required a repeat until it was corrected. Some years back a nervous priest (me) giving the sacramental blessing his first time read “to the souls of all those who partake” as “to all the souls of those who partake”. Yea, I had to do that one over again.
Some errors I could overlook, others though do need to be corrected.
It is possible that the first counselor missed the second error as he was primarily listening for the first error. It may be also that with the impromptu talk he was reassuring the Priest that he wasn’t going to be in trouble or anything for botching the Sacramental prayer.
I don’t think the first counselor missed the first the error. This is prayer is scriptural;
Moroni 5:2 & D&C 20:79.
But what we are saying here is . . . are the words the key to Sacrament or is the intent the key?
In my belief it is the intent. God looks at our harts. And if you come to sacrament like you come to Costco (looking for a snack) then a snack is all you will take away with you.
Besides these two scriptures site “Wine” as to be partaken for you souls. It was changed to water after it was written. This means to me it is not the words but the intent.
Jamie,
Isn’t the question “are the words key to performing ordinances?”
Our church has identified ordinances where the wording is suppose to be exact. To my recollection, the sacrament prayers are among these.
How about while performing the ordinance of baptism? Can I say “Having been commissioned of Jesus, I baptize you in the name of the Godhead.”?
JM said: “Did all 200 of us yesterday actually renew our covenants or did we just have a snack?”
It is amazing how people feel their week is amiss if they do not receive a small smashed piece of bread that was smashed by dirty hands and coughed on.
Pew Sitter,
PewSitter
… their hands before the cruch the bread. And only after they do this do they cough on the bread …
Most ordinance of the church are not said exact. There are only a few that are said exact.
Isn’t the sacrament prayer one of those that are said exact?
It seems you are advocating two things here. Which one is in proper order?
To those of us that do not hold the Priesthood nor have ever blessed or passed the Sacrament, I would pretty much guarantee that most of the 200 people there didn’t even know an error had been made. I agree that SOME ordinances have to be done to the actual letter, but having had one son when he was 16 repeat the prayer 7 times before he got it right, I think at one point nerves plays a part in it and now everyone has their heads up looking around, whispering so just what covenant did anyone renew at that moment?
Jamie Trwth said: “PewSitter
Lets get things straight; our Priests use wet-naps on their hand”
So the strange taste is from wet-naps and all these years I thought it was from staled bread that had been frozen too long.
Sally,
That is an excellent observation. If the Prayer had to be said 7 times before it was correct it could have broken the spirit of sacraments. Did your nervous son remember Christ when he partook of the sacrament or did he just feel stressed out and horrified? I wouldn’t have tried blessing it for sometime after that. Did anyone tell him “You did good.” I’ve been told that when I did crumby. I feel for anyone who has to go through that.
Pew Sitter,
It is a mingling of the Wet-Nap, Freezer burn and Stale bread that you taste. Oh Yes. And the Coughing of the Priests. That sounds like a Holiday.
I proclaim September 30th “International Coughing of the Priests Day”. Mark that one on your calendars.
I am so distracted whenever they make the priest repeat the prayer. I start concentrating on how bad I feel for the poor guy. Is exact wording really that crucial? The Lord doesn’t understand the intent? I have a hard time with that idea. Is the Sacrament about the experience of the people who are taking it, or is it about the details of the ordinance? I’m not sure.
Sue, the same could be said of any ordinance we perform where the wording has to be exact.
I’m sure in any of these circumstances, the Lord knows the intent.
What if it were baptism? How about the words we say at the veil?
Why should one set of exact words be treated different than another?
I see it as an all or none issue. Can it be any other way?
Ummm… assuming God is all-knowing, I’m not sure if the intent argument would hold any water, ever. The all-knowing God knows your intent; before you intended it. If He tells you to do something, it probably is an obedience/ritual thing, certainly not to show intent.
I agree rick.
It seems like a case of not being able to see the trees for the forest.
I find it interesting how at church, I have heard lessons, talks, sermons, etc… that talk about obedience. They use the metaphor of a ship being a fraction of a degree off course and it never getting to it’s destination.
I would think this would be a clear cut case of being a fraction of a degree off and “believers” with “testimonies” seeing it that way as well.
JM,
What about ordaining to an office in the priesthood, Or conferring the Holy Ghost? These ordinances are of those not said exactly as written in scripture. If we know the reasons why they are not said exactly then we can speak more on this subject. If we as a church substituted the word ‘wine’ for the word ‘water,’ then the words by virtue of this fact have been altered and hence are not said the same as they are read in the scriptures.
The difference, Jamie, is that the ones you listed don’t involve covenants. The three JM listed (sacrament, baptism, endowments) involve covenants.
JM,
In a ‘Zen’ perspective. If that ship is off course it is exactly where it is. Therefore it not off course it is exactly where it needs to be at that present time fully enjoying the moment.
In an LDS perspective the ship it is off course and needs to be corrected. Not matter if it takes you 7 times to navigate it back to where it “Needs†to be.
When you are confirmed don’t you receive the Holy Ghost? And if you resign your membership doesn’t the Holy Ghost stop residing in you? Or am I just wet behind the ears and getting this all wrong. Someone please correct me.
re:18
That’s just a silly argment. Substitution of the word wine to water doesn’t count. Your simply calling what your drinking by it’s name. and modern revelation has made an allowance for that.
It has not made an allowance for changing any of the other words.
re:19 and 20
What does that have to do with the topic?
We have to remember this Church was started by . . . . Jesus Christ. Jesus said ‘whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart’. This action requires intent.
If I intend to have a snack as Church instead of a covenant with Jesus it doesn’t matter if it was blessed correctly.
But the question was:
“Did all 200 of us yesterday actually renew our covenants or did we just have a snack?”