Comments on: Pride

By: rick

rick — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:34:06 +0000

Did anyone consider the possibility that the man in question wore a hat saying "Native Pride" because no one was giving away hat that said "Please Help Me"?

By: Jeff Milner

Jeff Milner — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:39:33 +0000

"What if you asked about the apparently strong propensity of blacks to commit violent crime and tied that to their genetics?"

That's a very good question. I think a large part of whether asking such a question is racist has to do with intent.

Scientifically speaking, not asking the question closes doors on potential knowledge, but social speaking, asking such a question makes one appear Machiavellian.

Since I'm not in a position to do the research, I would shy away from such a question for fear of appearances, but if the data presented itself, I would take it at face value.

I would also extrapolate from such data that any person of any skin colour or heritage who has a tendancy to commit violent crimes likely has either missing or extra genes to make them more prone to such activities.

Then again, I fall more into the "nature rather than nurture" camp of why we do the things we do. (Don't get me wrong, I know that nurture is a big part of it to, but I tend to lean stronger on nature).

Does that make one a racist? I hope not.

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:17:41 +0000

You ask about the apparently strong propensity of American Indians to abuse alcohol, and tie that to their race. What if you asked about the apparently strong propensity of blacks to commit violent crime and tied that to their genetics? Would that be racist?

By: Jeff Milner

Jeff Milner — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:07:34 +0000

"the way he lives, and the way you live, are not the product of genetics. [...] I think the view that your genes, or your race, is what accounts for these differences, is a racist belief."

At the risk of appearing to you like a racist, I believe that there are genetic differences which make each of us more or less susceptible to certain behavioral inclinations.

For example, I believe that certain genes will make you more likely to become addicted to alcohol than others. Perhaps if you never put yourself at risk by never taking that first drink, you can eliminate the genetic factor, but it's there nevertheless.

My belief seems to be supported by the fact that many first-nations people have stronger than average compulsions toward alcohol.

So the question really becomes, why do first-nations people have stronger than average compulsions toward alcohol? I think this question will be answered in the next 5 to 10 years when genetic tests become so cheap that it becomes standard procedure for everyone to just look over your genes and see what extra or missing genes you have compared to everyone else.

If it is genetic, then the way you live or the way others live, is in fact, heavily influenced by our genes.

How would this affect the way you think of free will?

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:17:37 +0000

I'm not saying that Blackfoot culture makes you drunken and homeless. I'm saying that the way he lives, and the way you live, are not the product of genetics. They're the product of behavior. I think the view that your genes, or your race, is what accounts for these differences, is a racist belief.

By: Kim Siever

Kim Siever — Sun, 10 Jun 2007 03:54:27 +0000

Yes. If he were white (or even Chinese for that matter), the chances he would be in the same situation would be much smaller.

Culture has nothing to do with it. It's not part of Blackfoot culture to be drunk and homeless.

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Sat, 09 Jun 2007 18:26:36 +0000

So you actually do believe that the separation between you and the man you saw is a product of genetics? You believe his genes caused him to be how and where he is, while your genes caused you to be how and where you are?

By: Kim Siever

Kim Siever — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:12:50 +0000

No. I am talking about genetic dilution; although, I think it may lead to cultural dilution. The more European ethnic background, the more the Cree background gets pushed out.

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:47:36 +0000

I understand what you mean. I just think you're really talking about a separation that generations of European cultural dilution (or diversification) has caused, rather than anything that should be attributed to genetics.

By: Kim Siever

Kim Siever — Fri, 08 Jun 2007 20:44:24 +0000

The point is, ltbugaf, that if none of my European ancestors had mated with my Cree ancestors, there's a greater likelihood I would have been in a similar boat as the man I met. In addition, because of my background being predominantly European, what Cree culture there was in my background is gone; I was raised with no one in my family acknowledging or celebrating our Cree heritage.

That's why despite sometimes feeling a kinship with my aboriginal brothers and sisters, I can really feel, at times like this, the separation generations of European genetic dilution has caused.