Richard Dutcher leaves the Church
87 thoughts on “Richard Dutcher leaves the Church”
Comments are closed.
Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues.
Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues.
Comments are closed.
My comments regarding Richard being arrogant were based on his interview, not my assumptions. His comments regarding other filmmakers in Utah whom he apparently felt he was catapulted above, were rude and arrogant. As far as Schindler’s List goes, one of the producers is a Mormon and I watched the entire movie and was moved by it. It didn’t leave me to think I wanted to jump off a cliff, it left me thinking how selfish we can be in life and what more could I do to help others. Let’s see, Richard’s movies — Brigham City, left me thinking, wow you just can’t trust anyone. God’s Army left me thinking, hope that doesn’t happen to my son — although as a mother I do have unconditional love. States of Grace left me with the thought of yes it can happen to anyone and that I need to really always be aware of what choices I make. So basically none of those movies moved me to help another person or show any more compassion than I already have — a very far cry from the feelings Schindler’s List evoked. I do have compassion for people who screw up and repent. As far as RD leaving the church, let me say once again — it’s his choice and it has zero affect on me. My argument is with his arguing that he cannot be a respected director and a Mormon at the same time. And I would just say, I suppose it’s too much of a challenge for him. The Other Side of Heaven, produced by the same man as Schindler’s was a fantastic movie as well and still did more for me than RD’s movie. It was just too bad it didn’t get the recognition it deserved, but that was due to the critics who were not Mormon. It’s the stigma still attached to Mormonism that affects his success as well, not his Mormon audience which is at fault here.
Kim, yeah, it wouldn’t let me post last week because it said I was blacklisted, ha ha. I’m just wondering which comment it was that I made that deserved blacklisting.
None.
The blacklisting feature is automatic. It checks the IP address of every commenter against a third-party database of known spamming IP addresses. If the IP address matches, the commenter is blacklisted. It’s a way of reducing the 500 spam comments we receive each day.
Often the most common reason a legitimate commenter’s IP address ends up in the database is because they had a virus/worm/etc that had sen out mass emails. A virus scan and repair usually resolves the issue.
Odd since I have online virus scanning on all the time which updates daily and I do scans all the time, not to mention that I don’t spam.
Blacklisted
I had this happen with my home connection a couple of times Kim – usually clears up in a few days all on its own.
Responce to G Dutcher: Yeah its me….still swiming in the Fox River only more upstream now.
Response to Anonymous: Cool! Jumping up & down. I was a sister missionary at the time the Dutchers lived in that area. In fact Richard used my name in God’s Army. I was the nice sister. :-)
Anonymous,
I thought that was you. I have many fond memories of us fishing in that filthy river.
Rayni,
How are you feeling? And yes, you were the nice sister.
I was blacklisted for several hours today. I left work and tried my laptop at home and I was able to post. So, perhaps my machine at work has a bug, or perhaps the software can detect that I browse anti-mormon blogs in addition to this one. Who knows (rhetorical question)?
GD check your email.
Glen
This isn’t an anti-mormon blog.
I wasn’t grammatically careful. I meant that I browse anti-mormon blogs, just as I browse this blog. Sorry if I made that unclear.
ok, not a problem.
Glen, you left me wondering if I was participating in an anti-Mormon blog, LOL. But then decided it couldn’t be.
BTW, I feel terrible 9-10 days out of 14. I’ve lost my hair, but luckily my head is round. Your mom sent me a cute hat that I wear to church. Chemo won’t kill me, but my son drives like a maniac & I may well die in an auto crash on the way to chemo!
Mary I was just released from Primary & entombed in the library.
Just look at the joys Richard has disassociated himself from. He doesn’t have to worry that a visit from the bishopric means a new calling & a release from a beloved calling that leaves you in tears.
Rayni
Oh I am sorry you are dealing with chemo :(
I got released from Primary and made the Activities Chairperson. I am trying to appreciate the calling. So far it isn’t working.
I miss Primary.
While reading the above emails on your “our thoughts”, it amazed me to why people justify many of their actions to why they go to church and why they leave the church! I was anti-LDS once while growing up in the South as a Southern Baptist and found yellow journalism everywhere. I found that people in or out of the church are just that people that try to do good some days and make mistakes other days. If you hang your hat on people than you are in trouble. Whether its Steve Young, Donny and Marie, or the guy next door or to any others out there, you can’t hang your hat either on R Dutcher. We always want to ask the question, is that person LDS? Hope he finds his or her testimony, and they will always find the excuse for why they fell away. Its pretty basic! They fell into sin and rationized not going and blamed it on something. I joined the church at 18, went on a mission at 19 to a asian foreign land, and found people are the same….looking for the truth, looking to intemperate the truth, and wanting someone to point the way! A Prophet! May I say, read the scriptures and serve others, “for they are they that testify of me” and if you don’t you will fall away. There is a formula for being sober, a formula to get the spirit, and a formula to find truth. As a 53 year old now, the events that brought me the truth some 35 years ago are not as important as what I did to gain the truth. I find that anything good in my life is through the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the scriptures and as directed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and even though I smile at the Utah Mormons for there is a cultural thing here, I find that all must really be converted and that goes the same for the Anti Mormons as well. They know not the truth for they know not where to find it! Richard has done good and hopefully he will find the truth, not as private interpretation but as the actual truth. There is truth you know!
Isn’t that the truth? But some people will be “Utah Mormons” whether they live in the Midwest or in Utah. President Hinckley tried to break that barrier down w/his counsel to respect those of other faiths.
You are also right, “If you hang your hat on people then you are in trouble” – but if you center your life on Heavenly Father & Christ they will not let you down. But as humans we are fallible. And yes, I agree that Richard has done good.
Rayni, who has gun-metal gray hair growing back, soft as kitten’s fur :)
President Hinckley surely has/had the missionary zeal! We were blessed to have him for so long. Today I had lunch with an agnostic friend of mine! A non believer as God has not revealed himself to him, quote unquote. He is a good friend but has looked for a sign for many years as God is silent, he says. The death of his young daughter, his wife from cancer, a failed business worth 250 million, has still not distracted this man from helping others, but he believes that the scriptures are just stories and if there really was a God, he would not let him children suffer so. He refuses to read the Book of Mormon. I have testified to him that it would give him answers. He said as an alter boy his experiences just did not do it for him. The local Priest was upset that alms(Money, Offerings) during Easter Sunday was just not enough as during that Sunday the Money would all go to the local Priest. He had no need for man made religion as money seem to dictate the Priest thoughts. His troubles and pain just would not come from a just God, so he says. Anyway, he enjoys our debates, our talks, my convictions and as he says, respects the LDS Church as he believes they do good in the world. ( I said, yes, by their fruits, ye shall know them). He said what does that mean? I said, you know there is a battle going on out there in the world on who has the truth…and Mormons are considered a cult in many of the worlds established religions. He defends the Mormons when someone discounts us, but he just doesn’t know…and as he puts it, I need a sign. I than discussed with him faith and how it can be obtained and how you can make it grow and even though you use the 5 senses, of Seeing, Hearing, Touching, Tasting, and Smelling, there is another sense that he needs to tap into. He debates well, but his lack of scriptures knowledge has us on different playing fields. He says they are stories and that he refuses to read those stories. I challenged him to read so this other sense called the Spirit could enter into his life and therefore he could know the truth in a different way than a doubting Thomas would. Anyway, convincing someone of the truth is a difficult thing especially when they are too scared to try to find out for themselves. As I previously stated in an earlier blog, that I was Southern Baptist, Anti Mormon, and was challenged to prove the Mormons wrong! Look what happened to me! Active Member of the church and loving it!
“they are too scared to try to find out for themselves”
Wow.
Judgmental much?
Judgmental, Rick? Who’s judging, it sounded like musing to me. Perhaps they are not so much scared as angry. Yet anger is a secondary emotion, not the primary one. Something brings on the anger & perhaps it is fear or maybe even grief.
Perhaps a similar challenge instead of just a debate, Anonymous.
Musing would sound like,’Perhaps he’s too scared…’.
The post clearly pigeon-holes the non-believer as scared. That’s just one of several judgmental statements such as,”his lack of scriptures knowledge has us on different playing fields”. You probably get my point.
Not knowing the person who was the topic of the post, it’s hard to guess but anger and fear are not the only reasons this individual might not be interested. He could just be ambivalent about the whole thing or not see it as consequential.
Also, RE:69 something else to consider: not only is it the case that ‘Mormons are considered a cult in many of the worlds established religions.’ They’re also considered a cult my many who are not religious.
Facts are facts! I didn’t say I was playing on a better field, even though I think the scriptures track record is better than what else is out there, and in this case, I am speaking of my friend, who wants/likes to debate but yet he refuses to research what I believe than I want to challenge him. His evolution theories change, I have studied them, just as I have Buddism, Shinto, Hindu, Catholics,Methodist, and all protestant religions. I recently have pointed out “Piltdown Man” and other “man made theories” that hold little water….fake. Now, if he would have read scripture, he would know that “trusting in the arm of flesh” has surely its failures. What’s wrong with judging? Come on, make a decision. I described a debate with a friend who enjoys debate. I like to battle myself. Sure we have had serious moments as he describes his wife’s and child’s death, but I let him know, that if he passed on, that I love him as my brother and I would surely baptize him for the dead! He liked that. I have put him on “F Bomb” quotas and he is doing well. Every attempt to debate, challenge, is on a case by case basis and in his case, he is scared.no doubt…not they! Reverse psychology! Remember case by case! Being ambivalent is just an excuse as one might need to really do something but they are scared! We don’t need referees, we need players. Shakespeare said it well! All the world’s a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances;
“the scriptures track record is better than what else is out there”
What? Are you completely out of your mind?
The track record of quantum theory or Newtonian gravity DESTROYS any scripture I’ve ever seen.
Ever heard of Copernicus? ’nuff said.
“What’s wrong with judging?”
Nothing if you don’t mind losing the friends you have. Oh, and if you really cleave to your scriptures, you may want to re-read Matt 7.
“Being ambivalent is just an excuse as one might need to really do something but they are scared!”
Umm… no.
I certainly wouldn’t research which wizard was the best at Hogwarts to debate some fanatic. Why would your friend feel the need to research something he considers to be merely fantastical literature?
I ponder what this ‘friend’ of yours is getting out of this judgmental relationship you have with him/her…
You say, I ponder what this ‘friend’ of yours is getting out of this judgmental relationship you have with him/her…
You ponder, you wonder, you can’t see what this friend is getting….wow nice judgment.
You see, we are human and we make judgments, decisions each and everyday.
Freedom to choose and than propagate/share your choice. You got your physical and spiritual mixed up.
The scriptures are in spiritual mode and one needs to see with those eyes to find true happiness. Harmonizing the scriptures goes a long way and plucking Matt 7 is just that…… non-harmonization. To say we can’t judge make no since, “choose ye this day, whom ye shall serve!” Come on Rick, make a call! Fence sitters are boring. oops, I judged again!
Fence sitter?
I am, I assure you, not on the fence about this issue.
But you’re evading the point.
What kind of friendship involves one person ignoring the other’s constant proselytizing?
It just seems odd to me.
Rick, He loves to ask me question after question and I enjoy responding! Sorry if I have painted the wrong picture here but he wants to discuss with me my beliefs. He finds Mormons/LDS unique in its declaration and its testimony to the world that God speaks to a man in our day as those that claim in the Bible as even though he does not believe in the Bible, he finds it interesting that someone is saying, “Thus saith the Lord!” . Since he is agnostic and has not a belief in a God because God has not revealed himself to him, he does admit that it is possible that there is a Higher Being or a God. He is wanting me to ask God to reveal himself like I testified that I believe happen to Joseph Smith. He believes that the Bible is a good story, but just that a good story and that if he died, that is it. He believes that the Book of Mormon was conjured up by a 14 year old boy, who was influenced by his treasure hunting experiences. He wants to know my reason for conversion and I have asked him to read the Book of Mormon to find out for himself and yet he can’t get past the first page, he says. Today at lunch, he asked me about death and what I think happens. From Heaven to Hell, to Spirit World( Paradise and Spirit Prison) and the 3 degrees of Glory, 1 Cor 15:40-42. He asked some very important questions yet they are only understandable if one reads the scriptures. Where did I come from?, Why am I here?, and Where does one go after they die?, you know, purpose of life questions. Its a give and take friendship but he brings it up and is searching in his own way and says, that he appreciates me being knowledgeable from a Mormon converts view and says that I seem to know the scriptures in detail more so than others that he has discussed these questions with. It would seem odd to most as we get a lot of chuckles by those that listen to our conversations, but it is in good taste and argument (debate). Although he knows that radio waves at rated frequency can not be seen with the naked eye, they can be measured. I tell him, that just as there are formulas that help the 5 senses know that things do exist such as television and radio waves, so it is with the Spiritual World, Prayer, Holy Ghost, Scriptures testifying of a Savior, and God’s love for his children. Just because you have not been to a place, does not mean that the place does not exist. He says, yes you are right! And the conversation goes on and on as he asks me more questions. I do enjoy! What are your beliefs Rick about religion, truth, God if you care to talk about?
“He finds Mormons/LDS unique in its declaration and its testimony to the world that God speaks to a man in our day”
I take it you friend has never met a Catholic?
I am a rationalist. I do not believe in any gods nor an afterlife since the probability for their existence is virtually zero. I also don’t believe in celestial teapots or flying spaghetti monsters.
I believe in truths that are known, truths that are unprovable and ‘knowns’ that are untrue.
Also, when you build your God’s Instruction receiver (as per your last comparison in your text-wall), I’d be very interested in getting an early prototype…
Prior to 1492 most of the civilized world believed the earth was flat. That was just a little over a 5 hundred years ago. Although not yet proven to be round, the fact was that it was round and it had nothing to do with it being discovered round as it just did not suddenly become such. You want proof therefore, you will just have to keep searching as it will not fall into your lap! Good luck in your search!
You may want to study up on your facts, Jim. Hardly anyone since 200 BC believed this. It is one of the most prolific of all historical myths, and was debunked more than 60 years ago.
Is that why Richard Dutcher left the church? He believed the world was flat? WOW….I really did know that had anything to do with his leaving……hmmm
My point exactly! Did everyone believe that it was flat….no! Does everyone believe there is a God….no! And vise versa! Monday morning quarterbacking is easy, but fear did exist and the point was that with our 5 senses we can not prove a God but it will take a Spiritual Conversion! “Hardly anyone” is something that exit polls may know! Exit Polls, right sometimes and wrong many times! Either way, there was no exit polls and to say, Hardly anyone is wrong! Show me your data!
“it will take a Spiritual Conversion”
What exactly does this mean?
“My point exactly!”
Your point was that hardly anyone since 200BC believed in God but people thought they did? I don’t follow.
Jim,
Here are some good places to start:
LOL, I know what you mean Carp. This thread has definitely taken a detour. I have wanted to ask, “What does this have to do w/Richard leaving the church?” ever since post #70.
Oh, to get back on topic – if you really want to know why Richard left you can ask him.
Word is, he’s been posting over on the Postmormon.org message boards…
Puh gets me quit e bored really, but then again as a practicing LDS it is always sad when some chose to leave. But in so many blogs there is this talk about the films and quality ….leaving the church has NOTHING to do with quality or not quality of art, if you are a goos artist you can be member of whatever yuu want, and if you art is weak it does not make it any better to leave the LDS church. Art that is not strong in itself will not find strength whether you run to or fro organisations. It is a fact many socalled “artists” in the church are not professionally at an artist level or their work can as far as I see it hardly be called professional, but excellent selftherapeutic activities and fun amateur art. Too many people wants to great “artists” not really understanding to be it they also have to produce art work that can stand up to scrutiny in the mysterious world of “AAAArt”. Not easy and there is not really any hiding place or terminology, neither nonmember, member, X or R ratings will help lift any product into that realm. Hard work,self scrutiny and talent may eventually bring a work the magic touch, maybe Duchter just does not have it??? Making endless selfportraited characters will not help if the “other” little magic understanding falls short of in depth contact. Just look at a Rembrandt portrait, a Pollock, Klein, Anish Kapoor, Bill Viola !!!to make a sweeping thought and the difference between wanna bes and those who sometimes get the point is astonishing. In film the same.
I am off to shoot film from my Art background Tuesday! Good luck to all and please leave this Dutcher alone and critize his films instead. There may be other real talent out there deserving attention.