Comments on: This Lawsuit is so Gay

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 02:42:05 +0000

Kim, I blew it. It had been so long since I read the beginning post that I mistakenly thought you were the one who had posted it, rather than Jeff Milner. My apologies to both Kim and Jeff.

By: Kim Siever

Kim Siever — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:00:25 +0000

Ltbugaf, re #29

Which of my comments are you referring to?

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:29:05 +0000

What I'm suggesting is that it's possible the word has moved on, so that the "undesirable/ridiculous" meaning has become separated from the "homosexual" meaning, so that it's now used independently, without necessarily evoking thoughts of homosexuality in the minds of those who use it to mean undesirable.

By: Nick Literski

Nick Literski — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:19:41 +0000

ltbugaf, While words do take on different meanings, those different meanings don't spring up out of thin air. Early on, "gay" meant happy, carefree, joyous. It became customary to euphamistically refer to certain unmarried men who's behavior raised questions of orientation as "living the gay life." From there, the usage became abbreviated to simply identify a homosexual person as "gay."

There was a time, as garry has noted, when such things just weren't talked about in polite company. With the appearance of AIDS, however, homosexuality became a more public topic, often with very negative judgments attached. If you think back, this early 1980s period is when you first began to hear schoolkids use the word "gay" to mean "undesireable" or "ridiculous" or "stupid." The usage has pretty clearly evolved in this way, whether or not a current high school student stops to think about that evolution. People don't hear that usage in a vacuum, either.

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:38:29 +0000

Kim, I wonder if we're totally safe in assuming that the word "gay" as used in the examples you gave to mean "undesirable" or "ridiculous" is necessarily to be equated with the use of "gay" to mean "homosexual." I think it probably is, but there's room for doubt. Words take on different and multiple meanings all the time. I don't know for certain that the people speaking were thinking "homosexual" when they said, "This lawsuit is so gay," and so on.

Just a thought.

By: Nick Literski

Nick Literski — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:28:32 +0000

ltbugaf, I wasn't describing my experience at all. I was just pointing out to garry that his same comment could have been made in the mid-1960s to criticize the increasing attention to racial issues.

I have no question at all that the vast majority of LDS were elated at the announcement of the 1978 priesthood revelation.

You still need to e-mail me, so I know which old college friend I'm hearing from! :-)

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:23:39 +0000

Nick, assuming you actually mean any of what you just said, I'm quite surprised that your experience differs so dramatically from mine. When I was growing up, I was certainly never taught that black people were "the lowest thing an LDS man could be." I was taught that they were good people who, for whatever reason the Lord might have chosen, couldn't yet have the Priesthood, and one day would have it. We were thrilled when the Priesthood was made available to them.

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:20:02 +0000

I think we became inured to an endless diet of heterosexual promiscuity in our media long ago, and the homosexual content still comes as more of a surprise.

By: Nick Literski

Nick Literski — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:19:03 +0000

garry in 1967: "What amazes me is how we have had race crammed down our throats. There was a movie on recently where LDS priesthood holders were accused of having one drop of African ancestry and the reason they used a rumor of African ancestry was that it was pretty much the worst thing that someone could have been accused of. When I was a kid, if you were known to have one drop of African ancestry, you were considered the lowest thing that a LDS man could be. Interesting how times have changed."

I promise, garry, not to cram my homosexuality down your throat, literally or figuratively.

By: Kim Siever

Kim Siever — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:15:16 +0000

What amazes me is to how we have had homosexuality crammed down our throats.

Have you watched any popular media lately? If anything, it is heterosexuality that is crammed down our throats. By any account.