Comments on: Testimonies: Fake it ’til you make it https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/ Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues. Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:39:06 +0000 hourly 1 By: Robert https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-175028 Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:39:06 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-175028 Can anyone help me with an answer to a question?

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By: Eric S. https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-32560 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:06:50 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-32560 You know what Rick, I’m with you on this one. When I hear “you can gain a testimony by bearing it” I always think of the studies in human science that demonstrate that exact result. People’s beliefs will change to what they publicly declare, whether it is true or not. Just google “Festinger and Carlsmith” and read some of the related studies. I’m afraid this may be a case of good intentions gone astray. Hold to the “thou shalt not bear false witness” and the other hard doctrines.

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By: rick https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-25346 Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:36:41 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-25346 “Just listen and He will teach you also.”

Which implies that those who do not hear from Him are not listening hard enough, or correctly.

…and in the mean time the question remains; should one bear a testimony they do not possess?

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By: Anonymous https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-25243 Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:29:35 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-25243 Jesus is like the wind. You cannot see it but you can see and feel what it does. Because you can see and feel the wind you know it is real. Testimonies are different for everyone. What Jesus does for me He may not do for you. My testimony is my personal walk with Jesus. Jesus touches and teaches all of us differently. Just listen and He will teach you also.

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By: Nermalcat https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14573 Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:43:31 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-14573 Very well put JM. I know what you mean. Rick, I agree with you, and let’s not forget that one of the 10 commandments is thou shalt not bear false witness. On the other hand, if somebody feels even a small particle of something spiritual or good, I suppose one could honestly articulate those feelings accurately such as “sometimes I have a uniquely good feeling when I read the scriptures or hear a hymn…etc.” From there you could also testify that you think that perhaps there is something good about these things, and perhaps continuing to openly testify of such “little” things could bring further and stronger confirmation from the spirit. But I agree that saying you KNOW something when you have recieved no such confirmation is a bogus mind control tactic not to mention being totally dishonest. Not appropriate advice at all.

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By: JM https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14547 Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:35:07 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-14547 I think you’re right on Rick. The whole gaining by bearing is LDS speak that assumes you have something to start with.

If you don’t it doesn’t apply.

My personal opinion is that the gospel, the message is true. I’ve had some first hand evidences that I just can’t deny. I don’t know why everyone can’t experience the same things I did, but whatever the reason, I can honestly say “I Know”.

I also believe that many, if not most people will not get that experience before they die. I’m not sure why. I also have first hand experience of people not feeling the same things Dan talks about in #14 when I am feeling them.

When it comes to a situation like that, I say to myself “Self, since they didn’t get the feeling or confirmation, they aren’t under any obligation to believe or obey, or join, or whatever, but since I did, I am under that obligation.”
So I don’t really get too concerned if someone gets a different answer than me. Perhaps it’s not their time. Perhaps it never will be in this life time. Who knows? All I can do is go with what works for me, and I owe that same courtesy to everyone else as per AoF #11.

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By: rick https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14544 Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:22:49 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-14544 Dan, that’s some pretty flowery language, but it doesn’t really address my point.

The first time you say the words, you have not yet received confirmation from the spirit. The first time is just hanging it out there, and hoping that you get validation, really.

…or to continue your analogy, you don’t know if you’re hand-starting a generator or just some loon turning a crank. ;)

And what happens if you don’t receive confirmation of the spirit the first time? The common opinion is to just get up there again and keep doing it until you gain a testimony by bearing false testimony enough times (if it hasn’t been validated yet).

Unless you were like Mary, and had a testimony from the womb. :)

It’s just odd to me.

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By: Dan https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14542 Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:43:49 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-14542 Rick,

you truly have some good questions to ask. :)

Regarding testimonies, when truth is spoken, the Spirit of the Lord testifies in the heart of he that hears. If you say, “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,” you are speaking truth that the Spirit will then affirm in the hearts of those who will listen to the Spirit. There is real power in testifying truth. When I bear my testimony, the Spirit confirms in my heart the words I speak, because they are words of power and of truth. In this way, my testimony increases because it has just been reconfirmed by the Spirit in my heart.

Think of bearing testimonies and receiving testimonies as starting up a power generator by hand. I’m sure you’ve seen those old manual driven power generators, right? You crank a wheel enough times to start it up.

The first couple of turns are very hard and provide little if any power generated. But you have to turn the wheel in order to get power generating. It doesn’t start first. It start with you first.

This is where faith plays its central role. Since I was born here on earth, I have never seen God with my mortal eyes. I do not have physical proof of his existence; all my proof is peripheral. Yet I know he lives and is there because I’ve felt that confirmation in my heart from the Spirit. You have to take a step into the darkness, the unknown to realize there is a place you can put your foot on, and not fear you are falling into an abyss.

Have faith that when the Lord says, “if you testify of me, I will come to you with my Comforter,” that he is speaking truthfully and will be there as he says. The impetus is on you though to act first. The door does not open from the outside, but from within. You must let the Savior into your life; he will not force his way in.

That said, back to the manual generator example. Most of the time, what will happen is that you won’t have to crank the wheel all by yourself, there will be others who will come with cables to charge your generator by plugging to their generator. This is done when they testify of the truth. The Spirit of the Lord is the cable that connects from the other, running generator, to your yet-to-be-charged generator, and gives it a small charge. You can choose to accept this charge and continue cranking your generator to keep the charge going, or let that jolt of energy die off.

Testimonies are like muscles and will atrophy if unused. Testimonies are like a manual generator that if you don’t continue cranking the lever, will slowly lose the energy. This is why we are counselled to continually bear our testimonies.

This world is full of distractions that take away from the testimonies we receive. We’ve got to keep testifying of Christ, else we lose that testimony.

Does this help?

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By: Bookslinger https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14526 Mon, 28 Aug 2006 03:31:35 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-14526 “Just sunday we heard a talk from a sister return missionary whose told us of a complaint from the her native companion – why do all of the American Elders sound like they are searching for a testimony?”

Because many American Elders go on missions before they get an “I know” type of testimony.

I would hope they at least have a strong “I believe” testimony before they sign their missionary application.

If I were a bishop, I don’t think I could sign a 19 year old man’s missionary application unless he could state a strong “I believe” kind of testimony.

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By: Bookslinger https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/comment-page-1/#comment-14525 Mon, 28 Aug 2006 03:25:22 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/08/26/testimonies-fake-it-til-you-make-it/#comment-14525 This is along the lines of #9.

Yes, there are several levels.

But there’s a fault in the original premise. The fault is in thinking that a testimony has to start out “I know.” That’s false.

A testimony can also be stated “I _believe_ Joseph Smith was a prophet” etc.

One of the Apostles, either Scott or Hales, once said “Faith is testimony, and testimony is faith.”

One can honestly say that they have a testimony before they get to the “I know” level.

As soon as you get to the “I believe” level, and have at least some internal spiritual “thing” to hang your testimony hat on, you have a testimony.

But also, to believe is more than mere opinion. To believe connotes committment and action upon that belief. Without committment and action, then it is not belief, it is mere opinion.

To my reckoning, there are three levels:

1. “I think.”
2. “I believe.”
3. “I know.”

Stand in front of a mirror and practice by looking yourself in the eyes.

If you can’t honestly say “I know”, then say “I believe.” And if you can’t honestly say “I believe” then say “I think.”

Or just practice all three.

Which feels the most comfortable?

No matter which one feels right for you, as long as you say it with honesty and sincerity, to someone who has less, you are strengthening them. It’s a testimony _to them._

Now sometimes people use the word “think” because they are timid and are afraid of taking a stand that the word “believe” implies. Or they think they are just being polite. But there is a divide, though it may be a grey area, between “think” and “believe.” “Think” is opinion only, and “believe” implies committment.

I’ve been told that the Greek word most often translated as “believe” in the New Testament has this connotation of committment and not mere intellectual opinion.

There is also a grey area straddling the line between “believe” and “know.” If you’re in that grey area, you might not know whether you know or if you believe.

I think it is there, in that grey area between “believe” and “know” that the bearing of an “I believe …” testimony will invoke the Holy Ghost to give us the knowledge that will take us into “I know” territory.

A lot of action, and the bringing about of much righteousness, can be accomplished with “merely” believing. We don’t have to “know” all things. We can deduce many things from a basic set of 5:

1. God lives.
2. Jesus is the Christ.
3. The Book of Mormon is true.
4. Joseph Smith was a prophet.
5. The prophetic succession was through Brigham Young, not the other splinter groups.

If those things are true, and I testify they are, then Gordon B. Hinckley is a prophet, and the official doctrine of the church is true and binding. Then the Word of Wisdom is the will of God. Then tithing is a true principle and commandment, etc.

I don’t have to have an “I know” testimony of those secondary things. For me, they are logical deductions from the first five.

There is still much to be accomplished by faith that doesn’t have to wait until one has a testimony of it.

Much growth can occur when we act upon the things we believe in, but don’t know for sure.

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