So this article claims that participants in a drug trial of Magic Mushrooms had “mystical” experiences, and many of them still felt unusually happy months later.
In fact many claim their experience to be among the most meaningful and spiritually significant experiences of their lives.
All this from a wee little fungi.
Perhaps a Fungi to bring you closer to the Big Guy? :)
Since the essence of worship is a state of mind, it kind of makes sense that some herbs might facilitate things. Give a medal to the guy who first tried whatever.
Hmmm… In this case, I’m going to side with the skeptics I met on my mission and say “You can’t trust a feeling”.
I feel happy after eating a snickers bar. Not the same thing as the spirit in my experience.
In fact, I would classify most of the Fast and Testimony Meeting “Sprirtual Feelings” as nothing more than emotion.
Feeling and Identifying the spirit is no trivial matter. I think even most LDS are mistaken w.r.t what it really is. I know I still have to sort through it all at times. I still get confused.
“In fact, I would classify most of the Fast and Testimony Meeting . . . as nothing more than emotion.”
You’re being very generous.
On which side? Spirit or emotion?
Some people, especially indigenous North Americans, say this stuff helps them in spiritual pursuits. Maybe they have a point. For what other reason then did G-d make magic mushrooms, peyote, etc?
“I feel happy after eating a snickers bar. Not the same thing as the spirit in my experience.”
Which kind of insinuates that you should try more experiences, no? ;)
Well, God created Lava. Perhaps we are suppose to ingest that as well? Who knows what sort of burning spiritual sensations that could bring on?
Oh, I think the consumption of lava would bring one to God very, *very* quickly…
LOL
Have you seen New York Doll. A wild punk rocker in a former life, Arthur indeed describes his spiritual witness of the Book of Mormon as an LSD trip from the Lord. Only there were no drugs involved of any kind.
Fascinating.
I’ll note our church joined a friend of the court brief when some American Indian church was arguing against anti-peyote laws on freedom of religion grounds in the USA court system (they lost, just like we did on polygamy long before.). But the point is even our GAs think there may be something useful with this stuff.
I just long for the day when western democracies really do become lands of the free. So far, only the Dutch seem to grasp the concept.
Steve,
As Austin Powers dad said, there are only 2 types of people I cannot stand, people intolerant of other’s cultures, and the Dutch.”
kidding aside, you have a point. It is an ancient Native american tradition and for them, very spiritual. It is sad that in spite of our ideals, we cannot tolerate anyhting unorthodox under the guise of spirituality. Of course, wicken and pagan views would be the next to need modern license. Where do you stop the ship before you get to the satanists.
Doc
You mean Wiccan, right?
yes, sorry.
No need to apologise, I just wanted to make sure there wasn’t another earth religion out there (that is a possibility!) that sounds the same that I didn’t know about.
Where does it state that Magic Mushrooms should not be taken by LDS folks?
I have some little purple pills that start with the word well and I can sit through any meeting and feel the spirit. Even Stake High Council Sunday.
I believe that falls under the catagory of drug use prohibited by the Word of Wisdom, although I don’t believe the WOW is accompanied by a list.
Are you talking about Wellbutrin?
JM brings up an important issue. The WofW means whatever the current generation of GA’s want it to mean. HJG’s four don’ts is the current WofW, to which they’ve added don’t do recreational drugs.
George makes the good point that the practical distinction between medically supervised meds and street drugs is blurry. I find the whole thing is silly and wish the GA’s would stick to the basics (faith, repentance, baptism, HG) to bring people to Christ and drop the unnecessary baggage and barriers to entry. Then encourage (not require) the whole of Section 89 (which even allows beer)within the church.
Section 89, which was meant to be a good common sense practice of dos and don’ts, certainly not a commandment to would preclude someone from the church, has been unfortunately dead for some time, a classic example of orthodoxy always leading to apostasy. In other words, such mistakes are inevitable within any organization, but orthodoxy prevents reform back to the original intent.
“…I don’t believe the WOW is accompanied by a list.”
Maybe this should be remedied.
That way we could eliminate a significant amount of extraneous discussion.
It could be like a kosher list for the LDS.
Mount it on LDS.org, put a copy in the back of the Ensign.
Church leaders could update it annually and save many, many members the hassle of having to explain to their bishop why it’s ok for them to have a Diet Pepsi and still get a temple recommend.
Let’s start a petition…
LOL
Yeah well, Rick. There would be too much controversy. Since there are still people convinced that coke is against the WoW and even chocolate…then there would be the people who, well, are willing to commit crimes for chocolate. You know, the Bishops would be overworked.
The opinions would be rampant.
“The opinions would be rampant.”
So we remove the chance for people to have opinions, and we have the prophet draft the list himself.
See? Problem Solved. Easy.
lol. yeah great, then someone’d force me to eat meat. ewwwwwww
Stick your head in a paper bag and breath real hard for 10 minutes, things will be better as long as you don’t drive a car.
Would this be against the W of W?
hyperventilation doesn’t count.
Sorry to be late to this discussion but I have been extremely busy lately.
I know of a group who were not involved in a study, who also took magic mushrooms and who also had some interesting experiences with the big guy – only it wasn’t who it should be – and their lives are forever altered.
To think that real, true spiritual experiences can come from a mushroom, or any other form of artificial means, simply reveals a thought process that thinks that things of value can be had with no effort. It can not and will not happen.
I feel to share my experiences. I am a Temple veil worker. Joined the Church at 30. Prior to membership I had several lsd, magic mushroom and extensive expereince with marijuana, not to mention alchol. I suggest those experiences assisted me in recognizing the organization set up to restore and manage a higher Priesthood in this day. After 23 years of membership/abstinence from all drugs, legal and illegal, I was given opportunity to participate in federally sanctioned Native American peyote cermonies. In fact, a day after attending one such Saturday ceremony I fulfilled an assignment to speak in sacrament meeting. Stoned? oh probably, self-convicted/guilty? not a speck, inspired/inspiring? yes.
In my humble opinion, observing the number of divorces, child abuse, legal drug usage, spousal abuse, percentage of tith payers and Temple attendees, on and on, the best kept secret in the Mormon church is the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Mormons are great at judging the level of righteousness of others and dead blind to self assessment.
Is it true that most LDS have never had a true spiritual experience where the Holy Ghost or an angel appears to them.
Would it be logical to assume those that have had a true spiritual experience would not find favour with church leaders who have not had an experiece themselves?
Would members who have not had one themselves also treat those who have as outcast?
Should it be a requirement that Church leaders have a spitural experiece before becoming a Bishop?
If not why not?
Fascinating, every spiritual teacher with any horse power, from Joseph Smith to Moses, to Mohamad, to Gandhi, to Jesus Christ, to Rumi, to Buddha, taught that all things are spiritual. Humans, not just Mormons, must recognize this three dimensional existence as a training ground provided to remove blinders, exposing all things spiritual. Until we see the simple, to often taken for granted, opening of a beautiful rose a spiritual happening, we certainly will not recognize angels in our midst, healings ongoing, apparent defiance of natural laws, further light and knowledge coming into our space, personal as well as universal.
Should it be required that individuals live their lives before they are born in order to prove they are worthy to take a body? I dont think so.
Church callings, like the calling to humanhood, are more for the callee than anyone else. We expect these, blooding burning saps, called leaders, working to serve to the best of their abilities to have answers to issues and questions that, often, should never leave the questioning individual’s closet, heart. We are all responsible to work out our own salvation. Too many church goers expect someone, anyone, to provide answers that may or may not be available to any one but the inquisitor, and not available until asked. Then when we follow someone else’s “counsel” and fall flat we want to judge/blame them for our ignorance.
Every breath is a spiritual gift, recognized only through a personal experience with “other.” We like to put names on stuff that really have no name, like Holy Spirit. This human joker has no inside info on what those unknowns are suppose to be called. I will continue to push the envelope, walk the edge, finding gravity by falling down, and it anit no sin. It’s all about learning boundaries.
No silly mystical measure imployed to get a handle on the universe has ever helped me to become a better christian. ‘Can’t say the same for counsel from loving LDS leaders.
Interesting thought – How can someone be a spiritual leader if they have not been visited by the Spirit of God.