I have a love-hate relationship with the week following the LDS General Conference.
On the one hand, I can pretty much say and do whatever I like without fear of reprisal or repercussion because everyone’s trying so hard to be christ-like.
On the other hand, I can expect to be love bombed and receive all of the,”Hey, I just wanted to call to see how you’re doing.” phone calls.
I’m not sure if members are aware that there is a discernable difference in the way they act after these events – but I’m here to tell you as an outsider that there really is a difference.
hmmm.. well you are probably right. nice if it could last :)
Gee, how awful of them to become kinder, more thoughtful people after General Conference! That would annoy me too.
If he really is annoyed by it, it’s not because they do it; it’s because they seem to do it right after conference only.
It’s too bad that more members don’t take the same felings from sacrament meeting or other Sunday meetings. Rick, as an insider who lives in an area where the church is not huge, I’m curious how long you see this exuberance lasting.
Also,ltbugaf, do you have to confront everything anyone ever says on this blog? It was pretty obvious that Rick wasn’t insinuating that kind church members were annoying. Lighten up. Please.
Doh! You said the WEEK after. Forget that question above Rick.
“It was pretty obvious that Rick wasn’t insinuating that kind church members were annoying.”
Really? Is that why Rick called it a love-hate relationship? What’s the part he hates?
“do you have to confront everything anyone ever says on this blog?”
No. I don’t have to.
I am definatly with Mary on this one. Being from Los Angeles things are a bit different there, at least from my point of view.
I would have to say that it is much much harder to be an active member of the church here in Salt Lake City, than anywhere else I have lived.
John Scherer, maybe you deserve a more complete explanation from me:
Rick says he has a “love-hate relationship” with the week after General Conference. He then goes on to describe the part he loves (being left to say/do what he wants without fear of reprisal) followed by the part he hates (being “love-bombed” with thoughtful phone calls). Sounds to me like he’s annoyed by the thoughtful phone calls.
Do I have it wrong, Rick?
He’s “annoyed” with the hypocrisy. They phone him two weeks out of the year, but ignore him the rest of the year.
ltbugaf,
why is it you pick apart things rick says? can’t you understand what he is saying? people are more spiritual/righteous right after conference and then back to their old ways. what’s wrong with not liking that scenario so much?
why is it you comment here if you dislike us so much?
The perfect example of what I am talking about occured last night.
You would have thought there was some sort of town celebration going on with all of the family home evening activities taking place, people walking as families, etc.
It’s almost comical due to the fact that in two weeks everyone will be back to their regular behaviours, with the town being a a teenage wasteland from the hours of 7-9 without any parents to be seen.
“why is it you pick apart things rick says? can’t you understand what he is saying?”
Yes. I can. He’s annoyed about the “love bombs” and apparently his annoyance results from the fact that he expects them to disappear in a short time.
So what’s the problem?
the problem is you find fault with every little thing he says. he expresses his disdain for hypocritical behaviour because it DOES disappear. and you can’t see that. either you are incredibly naive or you live in a bubble. it’s common behaviour world-wide. few do actually permanently improve, the rest of us keep trying to improve over and over again.
maybe you are more perfect than the rest of us, but then maybe not, because humility certainly is a factor in perfection.
I don’t think the behavior is hypocritical. I think people may very well be more mindful of how they ought to behave right after General Conference, and then gradually become more forgetful of that as time goes by. That’s not hypocrisy. I think it would be better to rejoice in people’s good behavior, even if we expect it to dissipate somewhat over time, rather than condemn the good behavior because we expect it to dissipate over time.
“Maybe you are more perfect than the rest of us…”
I really wouldn’t know. You’ll have to judge that for yourself.
I can’t. I don’t know you. But the way you go at other people give sme the impression you think you are something great, more righteous and more knowledgeable.
I do think people are trying too, but there is sometimes some hypocrisy involved.
Like say when our hometeachers (of a few years ago, not now) speak on the wonderful blessings and responsibilities of doing your home teaching and yet never once came to see us.
It’s not forgetfullness, it’s hypocrisy.
If you knew how small the town is, where I reside it may assist your understanding.
These people need to do something immediately following the spiritual lift(or tonguelashing) they get from conference. So for three days they try to do a little extra so they don’t feel guilty about all the stuff they don’t do for the rest of the year.
Having done this little bit extra for a week or so, they then slip back into their former lives, content in the knowledge that they are still good people – I mean they must be, look at all the good stuff they’ve done in just the last week.
If they gave a damn about any of these things they emphasize in the week following, I as an outsider, would not notice a difference because they’d keep doing it all year round.
Well, Mary, I’ve wondered the same thing.
Perhaps it’s immaturity or lack of experience in blogging.
annegb
yes, maybe so. sigh.
I often wonder about the way we view hypocrisy. For example, most people find Thomas Jefferson quite hypocritical, because he firmly denounced slavery as an institution degrading to both slave and master, yet he never freed his own slaves.
Now, in the first place, it’s obvious that the best thing would be for him to release his slaves and extricate himself from the degrading institution he condemned. But assuming he’s not going to do that, then what? Is it better for him to condemn slavery even though he continues to practice it, or is it better for him to stop condemning it?
I think it’s better for him to preach what is right, even if he fails to live up to it. It’s better for him to say slavery is wrong, even if he continues to do that wrong.
The same idea might apply to some of the examples given above. Since we all do less than perfectly in being Christ-like, should we then cease to preach that being Christ-like is the right thing to do? After all, that’s hypocritical.
If we fail to do our home teaching well, should our mouths be shut when it comes time to say whether home teaching is a good thing? Or should we praise the ideal that we fail to live up to?
My grandfather, who had a severe struggle with alcohol throughout most of his adult life, straitly warned his children against drinking it. Call him a hypocrite, if you like. In my view, he did the right thing in speaking against booze.
There is a difference between being knowledgable and being a hypocrite.
The hypocrite proports to possess the virtue of which he denounces another for lacking.
In the case of your grandfather, he was well aware of his drinking and did not claim to be a non-drinker – thereby removing the chance of hypocrisy.
Again, you miss what is being said. No it is NOT hypocritical to warn against doing wrong etc etc or to preach about what to do right, etc etc. But people who pretend one thing but in reality are something different, then yeah, that’s hypocritical. Yes, there are people like that.
I never said your grandfather was a hypocrite, nor did anyone else. good grief, why do you twist what people say? And like I asked, if you dislike us all so much, why do you hang around? Is it to feel superior to us? I enjoy your comments when they are thoughtful, thought-provoking and fair. But when you get all mean-spirited and self-righteous, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Just play nice.
I’m sorry I’ve created the impression I dislike you all.
Rick, I’m suggesting that under the definition you give in #21, maybe some of the people calling you aren’t hypocrites.
Maybe they know they aren’t doing as well as they should. Maybe the effect of General Conference on them is to remind them of that failing, and help them to do better for a while. Maybe some of them–or even all of them–are going to go back to failing. But I don’t think that means they’re being hypocritical when they try to be kinder and more thoughtful for a short period.
Perhaps if their original plan were to make a token, week-long effort and then never speak to you again, THAT would be hypocritical. But I doubt that they’re planning to fail. They’re probably trying sincerely to do what they believe is right, and apparently failing to keep up their efforts as long as they should (and as long as they themselves think they should).
“I’m sorry I’ve created the impression I dislike you all.”
Apology accepted.
I do agree with ltbugaf that humanity is more likely the cause of this difference than any blatent hypocrisy. But is the sarcasm really needed?
Which sarcasm? The first comment I made? I thought it was kind of cute. ;)
How about you, Rick? You appreciate a little light-hearted sarcasm, right?
(In fact, it’s been interesting to read on recent threads just how much Rick, Kim and Mary seem to associate sarcasm with being Canadian. Never really thought about it, but I don’t remember noticing that my northern neighbors used that particular rhetorical technique more than we Yanks do.)
I honestly don’t mind any level of sarcasm. Liberal amounts as well as the most understated.
ltbugaf, I don’t take offense or feel like you’re patronizing when discussing things with me … it’s a trait I’ve learned to tassociate with the LDS in general, so I guess it’s like water of a duck’s back.
Now that I’ve thoroughly insulted most readers of this blog (please accept my most tongue-in-cheeck apologies) back to the topic at hand.
I don’t think that the people have to plan on dropping their level of devotion for it to be ingenuine, or even hypocritical.
The very fact that for most of the year they do not possess the virtues which they throw in my face is the reason it is hypocritical.
I don’t mean to paint with such a wide brush most times, but when you literally see the same behaviour from an *entire* town at the same time, it’s a bit comical.
Hey, I’m not insulted by it. I’ve come to expect it. I was just pointing it out, for people (the readers) who may not appreciate that they engage in the activity themselves.
“The very fact that for most of the year they do not possess the virtues which they throw in my face is the reason it is hypocritical.”
How do you reconcile this with what you said in #21? My grandfather didin’t possess the virtue that he threw in the face of his children. But I’m awfully glad he did throw it in their faces, because they listened to him and lived accordingly. I’m also glad that Thomas Jefferson threw the virtue of abolishing slavery in the face of the nation and the world, even while he didn’t possess that virtue himself.
Interesting observation Rick. Our hometown is a weird place. I myself can firmly state that I did not in any way attempt to be a better person after conference. I’m just as lame as always. Good for me eh?
They CLAIM to have the virtue and do not most of the year.
Did your grandfather *claim* not to drink?
Did Jefferson *claim* not to own slaves?
The distinction is clear.
So these members *claim* to be calling you every week?
You have a knack for completely missing the point.
The hypocrisy lies in their claiming to care about me when in truth they do not.
Yes, they do claim to care about me.
No, they really do not.
Rick: The best thing I can say here is that they will be judged on their thoughts actions, as will you and I. I personaly know that I have no right to judge them, or anyyone else because I am imperfect.
I have a friend that is also LDS. I was his home teacher for a year. I am close friends with his family. he is younger than I am by 10 years or so. He and his wife are struggling with their marriage and children. My marriage is not perfect. My wife and I have had more than our share of issues. So is the advise that I am giving him hypocritical rantings, or the advise of someone that has been there, and knows what I would do differently?
I’m not completely sure why everyone is so hung up about being called a hypocrite.
I am hypocritical all the time.
I’m a big fat gentile hypocritical troublemaker. Big deal.
Did I miss the memo that said we aren’t allowed to be imperfect? ;)
It seems like lately on this blog people have been fighting furiously to avoid being labelled *anything*.
I just don’t get it.
Rick, my suggestion is still that they actually do care about you but don’t do as good a job of showing that care as they ought to. The fact that they do a better job of showing that care after General Conference doesn’t make them worse; it makes them better.
No, they really don’t.
I can tell, because of statements like,”Hey Ron, we’ve been thinking about you lately.”
Newsflash to moron: If you’ve been thinking about Ron, you’re shaking the wrong guy’s hand.
I’ve gotten people’s names wrong at church before. I must be more evil and insincere than I thought.
You probably are. :P
I wonder…do you care about them?
Not in the least, and I tell them so. Frequently.
I think, given the choice between someone who tries to act kind towards me, even if his actions may be hypocritical, and someone who is utterly indifferent to me and says so, I’d choose the former.
I’m not sure that hate is the opposite of love; I think indifference is the opposite of love.
…and I’d choose the latter, without a doubt.
I have people calling me by the wrong name all the time. So what. News flash. People are Human.
If I took offense every time anyone made a mistake like that, I would be in a terminal case of ticked off. I made up my mind long ago, when I was constantly made fun of, beat up, and harrassed, that I would not let small minded people determine my future or state of mind.
People call me Kim.
Do they call your husband Mary?
… or maybe they think you’re very progressive.
Ray, my point is that I’d rather me left alone altogether. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
It doesn’t tick me off, I’m pretty used to it.
Somebody called me by the wrong name in the middle of an Elder’s Quorum lesson a couple of weeks ago. I was the one teaching.
My mother calls me by my brother’s name all the time and vice versa. I’m pretty sure she cares about us :)
Good heavens, I do that all the time! I’m constantly using the wrong names in addressing my children. I just never realized before that this means I’m an uncaring hypocrite.