Comments on: Pre-mortal Works

By: Our Thoughts » Blog Archive » Should we drop these doctrinal ideas?

Our Thoughts » Blog Archive » Should we drop these doctrinal ideas? — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:12:20 +0000

[...] itâ€s worth, weâ€ve talked about the first idea several times at Our Thoughts (see here, here, here, and here). AKPC_IDS += "2067,";Popularity: unranked [...]

By: Kim Siever

Kim Siever — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:15:23 +0000

Absolutely.

By: Demosthenes

Demosthenes — Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:14:02 +0000

Does anyone still read this? If so, I would like to share a few thoughts, but if no one is listening then I have no one to bounce ideas off of. So there’s no point-

By: Our Thoughts » Blog Archive » Atonement and Predestination

Our Thoughts » Blog Archive » Atonement and Predestination — Wed, 31 May 2006 23:24:34 +0000

[…] The topic of predestination/foreordination has been discussed throughout the Bloggernacle (most notably at New Cool Thang, but here as well). […]

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:09:05 +0000

I certainly agree with you there. I don’t understand how God can know what hasn’t come to pass. But inasmuch as I accept the truthfulness of the scriptures, I clearly can’t deny that he does know it.

By: Mary Siever

Mary Siever — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:05:27 +0000

ltbugaf

But you are judging His comprehension by human standards and not by His standards which was way beyond our understanding.

What I am saying is, we cannot fully know what He knows or how He knows, because we don’t have the capacity for such understanding.

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:29:42 +0000

Kim, re: 89–You say that if God knows the future then we have no real freedom of choice. So either you believe that God doesn’t know the future, or you believe that we have no freedom of choice. Surely that’s not a false dichotomy. Which side DO you take? No such thing as foreknowledge or no such thing as agency?

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:27:20 +0000

Mary, I really don’t think I’m the one who is placing human limitations on God. The ones doing that are those who say it’s impossible for him to know the future because, according to human perspective, it can’t be known.

By: ltbugaf

ltbugaf — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:26:11 +0000

Kim, in 81 you say, “The future is not fixed because God knows it, he knows it because it is fixed.”

What fixes the future? The freewill choice of individuals. So free choice results in fixation of events, which in turn results in God’s perfect knowledge of those events.

You and Geoff keep saying that if the future is fixed and knowable, then there can’t be any freedom, as if that were somehow an undeniable axiom. Geoff even goes so far as to say that my denial doesn’t make it untrue. Of course, I know my denial doesn’t MAKE it untrue. It’s untrue all by itself. It’s a nonsequitur.

By: Mary Siever

Mary Siever — Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:12:51 +0000

ltbugaf

Again you put words and meanings in my mouth. I have never once meant that. You are limiting Heavenly Father's knowedge to the realm of human understanding. I am not going to repeat what I said as you don't seem to understand it. But I will say again that we CANNOT know what method He uses because our understanding, our comprehension is so limited. You place human capablities on our God. That's always going to backfire on you.