Comments on: Gender https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/ Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues. Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:05:55 +0000 hourly 1 By: Mark https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-30909 Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:05:55 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-30909 I know this thread is over a year old but I have to leave some comments here for clarification for people that may come across this thread in the future. Yes, “BKP” is a prophet. He’s also a mortal. I’m not saying that what he has said on this matter is wrong but that we may not be able to fully and accurately perceive his viewpoint on this matter and he may have never fully explained it himself.

The quote by Oaks is true. He, as a general authority, teaches general principles and sometimes exceptions apply to particular individuals. Yes, determining that you might be an exception to a rule is difficult and I suppose requires tremendous humility.

I should also mention that the current church handbook of instructions states that participating in a gender reassignment operation is generally grounds for excommunication but that specific questions should be forwarded to the First Presidency. That may or may not be the exact wording but it is at least less strict than the prior version of the handbook was. And I have some knowledge of at least one such case being forwarded to the First Presidency and approved but I am trying to confirm that this actually took place.

It is true that our spirits are either male or female and that in the vast majority of cases a male spirit will inhabit a male body in mortality and a female spirit will inhabit a female body in mortality. It is also true that the few remaining exceptions will be corrected in the resurrection. It is also true that a male cannot be sealed as husband to another male in eternity nor can a female be sealed to another female as a wife in eternity, nor could a union between male and male or between female and female produce spirit offspring in the resurrection.

For myself, I have struggled with a gender identity disorder for as long as I can remember. I’ve never had a test done to determine if I have an XXY situation but I would certainly be interested in finding out. I guess it’s partly a money issue and partly fear of asking for the test to be done only to get the results and find out nothing is abnormal with my chromosomes, in which case the whole thing would’ve just been a waste of time. I also don’t know what I would do if I found out I had XXY chromosomes. I am a worthy (not perfect), and frequently attending, temple recommend holder. I do not in any way identify with the so-called “gay movement” or advocate any actions contrary to the teachings of the restored gospel. My struggle is my own and does not harm my testimony. I do not know why I even have this struggle or why it’s so persistent over such a long period of time. I’ve accepted that I at least appear male and try my best to fill that role but it rarely feels right to me.

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3849 Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:13:21 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3849 ltbugaf’s Most Sensible Comment of the Thread Award is hereby given to…

Bookslinger, for #34.

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By: Mary Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3807 Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:08:04 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3807 All I know is, I am female, through and THROUGH.

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By: Kris https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3787 Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:25:09 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3787 Holy crap…that’s a loaded question.

K.

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By: Steve EM https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3785 Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:18:29 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3785 s caused. To explain, as previously stated, I don't know if some people are born gay or not, transsexual or not, but to preclude the possibility is to naively ignore the reality of our chaotic existence. Such dogma pretends that chaos is precluded in some areas of our existence, such as sexual orientation during fetal development, which is just nonsensical given all the other random chaotic birth defects we deal with. He seems to have exceeded his commission on this subject. I’m sure you disagree, and that’s ok.]]> Itbugaf, just focusing on topic, I don’t believe BKP has any special knowledge in this area. If he honestly feels otherwise, I believe he’s confused and oblivious to the harm he’s caused. To explain, as previously stated, I don’t know if some people are born gay or not, transsexual or not, but to preclude the possibility is to naively ignore the reality of our chaotic existence. Such dogma pretends that chaos is precluded in some areas of our existence, such as sexual orientation during fetal development, which is just nonsensical given all the other random chaotic birth defects we deal with. He seems to have exceeded his commission on this subject. I’m sure you disagree, and that’s ok.

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3771 Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:40:51 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3771 The Proclamation states that gender is a characteristic of premortal and mortal identity, which of course isn’t the same thing as stating that the gender characteristic of the premortal and mortal identities are identical.

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3770 Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:39:05 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3770 Steve:

Is it cruelty or just speaking the truth God has given him?

I think I know what your answer will be, but on what are you basing it?

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By: Steve EM https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3769 Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:36:14 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3769 t be medically verified?" Bookslinger, Yes, you're absolutly correct. My piont is it is cruel to tell such an individual who feels they are such an exception that their feelings are misguided when we don't live in thier skin and can't possibly know what they're going through.]]> “……individuals with normal genetics corresponding to normal internal and external physiology are claiming an exception that can’t be medically verified?”

Bookslinger, Yes, you’re absolutly correct. My piont is it is cruel to tell such an individual who feels they are such an exception that their feelings are misguided when we don’t live in thier skin and can’t possibly know what they’re going through.

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3768 Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:35:43 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3768 The Proclamation on the Family seems to indicate it’s a characteristic of both spirits and bodies. When there’s a partial mismatch, that’s a flaw of the body.

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/comment-page-2/#comment-3767 Thu, 02 Feb 2006 20:33:51 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/2006/02/01/gender/#comment-3767 In that case, is our gender then determined by our spirit, and not by our body?

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