Comments on: Inspiration https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/ Thought-provoking commentary on life, politics, religion and social issues. Tue, 30 Nov -001 00:00:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: rick https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2797 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2797 I’m pretty sure George prays…but I’m not sure to whom.

Paul? Hmmm… I’d guess not.

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2798 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2798 I assume Will meant LDS church leaders. Maybe he can clarify if I am wrong in my assumption.

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By: will https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2799 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2799 t need a lot of continuing revelation. We have a great, basic reservoir of revelation. But if a problem arises, as it does <B>occasionally</B>, a vexatious thing with which we have to deal, we go to the Lord in prayer. We discuss it as a First Presidency and as a Council of the Twelve Apostles. We pray about it and then comes the whisperings of a still small voice. And we know the direction we should take and we proceed accordingly.<BR/><BR/>RB: And this is a Revelation?<BR/><BR/>Gordon B. Hinckley: This is a Revelation.<BR/><BR/>RB: How often have you received such revelations?<BR/><BR/>Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh, I don’t know. I feel satisfied that in <B>some</B> circumstances we’ve had such revelation. It’s a very sacred thing that we don’t like to talk about a lot. A very sacred thing.</I> [Emphasis mine.]<BR/><BR/>Second, the time factor. Hundreds of instructions are issued from the 1st Presidency every week, including mission calls, sealing cancellation authorizations, reinstatement authorizations, etc. Obviously, there isn't time to pray and receive answers for each of these.<BR/><BR/>Third, personal experience. Anyone who has been a local leader, or served closely with one, realizes that decisions, even important ones, are often made without praying first.<BR/><BR/>Fourth, history teaches us that church leaders have occasionally issued instructions that are clearly uninspired. Consider Franklin D. Richards telling the Willie handcart company to push on.<BR/><BR/>Having said all this, I think there are very few cases in which we should dismiss our leaders' instructions. See <A HREF="http://www.lavalane.org/ponderit/2005/12/why-i-follow-my-leaders.html" REL="nofollow">Bradley's latest</A>.]]> I’ll try to make a case for a negative answer.

First, an interview transcript from Australia, 1997:

Gordon B. Hinckley: Now we don’t need a lot of continuing revelation. We have a great, basic reservoir of revelation. But if a problem arises, as it does occasionally, a vexatious thing with which we have to deal, we go to the Lord in prayer. We discuss it as a First Presidency and as a Council of the Twelve Apostles. We pray about it and then comes the whisperings of a still small voice. And we know the direction we should take and we proceed accordingly.

RB: And this is a Revelation?

Gordon B. Hinckley: This is a Revelation.

RB: How often have you received such revelations?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh, I don’t know. I feel satisfied that in some circumstances we’ve had such revelation. It’s a very sacred thing that we don’t like to talk about a lot. A very sacred thing. [Emphasis mine.]

Second, the time factor. Hundreds of instructions are issued from the 1st Presidency every week, including mission calls, sealing cancellation authorizations, reinstatement authorizations, etc. Obviously, there isn’t time to pray and receive answers for each of these.

Third, personal experience. Anyone who has been a local leader, or served closely with one, realizes that decisions, even important ones, are often made without praying first.

Fourth, history teaches us that church leaders have occasionally issued instructions that are clearly uninspired. Consider Franklin D. Richards telling the Willie handcart company to push on.

Having said all this, I think there are very few cases in which we should dismiss our leaders’ instructions. See Bradley’s latest.

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By: Mary Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2800 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2800 I don’t believe we should ignore the counsels of our leaders either. I also agree with Will, not evey item is inspired on a constant basis. We are to use our common sense, aren’t we? And the Prophets aren’t exempt from that either. Plus, the Lord lets us learn from mistakes and choices we make.

I also believe that personal inspiration is important. There might be some general guidance (I am not referring to doctrinal issues) that either doesn’t apply to someone, or for a specific instance, isn’t appropriate.

For example, members of the Church have been encouraged to stay in their own countries to build up the Church there. However, what if one family feels inspired to emigrate somewhere else? Perhaps it is for a job, or for some other situation. As a general rule then, members should listen, but sometimes an individual may be personally inspired to not heed that counsel at that time. It doesn’t necessarily make the counsel wrong, just not the right counsel for one individual. This can happen with many other situations as well, where it is COUNSEL. NOt necessarily direct revelation…the Lord saying “everyone must do this”.

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By: rick https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2801 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2801 Okay, but here’s the bigger question.

Why so much revelation on personal habits and so little revelation on the big ticket items?

No official church stance on either of the big conflicts going on right now (Palestine and Iraq), but plenty of revelation on ink-work, multiple piercings and what colour shirt to wear.

Doesn’t his seem odd?

Aren’t the the big questions ‘vexatious’ enough to pray about?

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By: Mary Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2802 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2802 Well, I am sure there is some revelation. BUt I don’t think if the Propher were to be told that the Iraq war is wrong and the US should cease and desist that the US President would listen. Especially since the war is about economics, pretty much.

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By: rick https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2803 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2803 Oh I agree, Mary.

Even if the prophet came out stating that the will of God was against the war, I doubt the President, or administration would pay any attention to him at all.

The real question is then: Would member families call their sons and daughter out of the war?

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By: Mary Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2804 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2804 Hmmm…now that’s a point. I wonder if they would?

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By: ltbugaf https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2805 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2805 “Consider Franklin D. Richards telling the Willie handcart company to push on.”

I’m sorry to see that you’ve chosen to join the detractors who always think their view of history places them in a position to tear down Priesthood leaders.

Consider the following, regarding the Martin Handcart Company:

“It was in an adult Sunday School class of over fifty men and women. Nathan T. Porter was the teacher and the subject under discussion was the ill-fated handcart company [Martin Handcart Company] that suffered so terribly in the snow of 1856. Some sharp criticism of the Church and its leader was being indulged in for permitting any company of converts to venture across the plains with no more supplies or protection than a handcart caravan afforded. One old man in the corner sat silent and listened as long as he could stand it, then he arose and said things that no person who heard him will ever forget.

“His face was white with emotion, yet he spoke calmly, deliberately, but with great earnestness and sincerity. He said in substance, ‘I ask you to stop this criticism. You are discussing a matter you know nothing about. Cold historic facts mean nothing here, for they give no proper interpretation of the questions involved. Mistake to send the Handcart Company out so late in the season? Yes! But I was in that company and my wife was in it, and Sister Nellie Unthank whom you have cited here was there, too. We suffered beyond anything you can imagine and many died of exposure and starvation, but did you ever hear a survivor of that company utter a word of criticism? Every one of us came through with the absolute knowledge that God lives for we became acquainted with Him in our extremities!

” ‘I have pulled my handcart when I was so weak and weary from illness and lack of food that I could hardly put one foot ahead of the other. I have looked ahead and seen a patch of sand or a hill slope and I have said, I can go only that far and there I must give up for I cannot pull the load through it. I have gone to that sand and when I reached it, the cart began pushing me! I have looked back many times to see who was pushing my cart, but my eyes saw no one. I knew then that the Angels of God were there.

” ‘Was I sorry that I chose to come by handcart? No! Neither then nor any minute of my life since. The price we paid to become acquainted with God was a privilege to pay and I am thankful that I was privileged to come in the Martin Handcart Company.’

“The speaker was Francis Webster. And when he sat down there was not a dry eye in the room. We were subdued and chastened lot. Charles Mabey who latter became Governor of Utah, arose and voiced the sentiment of all when he said, ‘I would gladly pay the same price to personally know God that Brother Webster has.’ ” – Writings of William R. Palmer.

Apparently those who actually suffered through the experience had a considerably less critical perspective than yours.

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By: Kim Siever https://www.ourthoughts.ca/2005/12/05/inspiration/comment-page-1/#comment-2806 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.ourthoughts.ca/?p=356#comment-2806 “Apparently those who actually suffered through the experience had a considerably less critical perspective than yours. “

Or at least one of them did.

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