Did the Almighty arrange for George W. Bush to gain office, and did He set into motion the events that led to the ‘liberation’ of Iraq?
I’d be interested to know how many people honestly believe this and how many think it’s ludicrous.
Does God want the USA in Iraq?
hold your horses everybody!!! When were we told we could only wear one pair of earrings? What priesthood key was used to come up with that train of thought? What power of discernment was used to come up with that thought? What does my only having one set of holes in my ears have to do with my respect, my reverence, my service to the Lord, my membership?
Was this the same logic that came out with the saying men can only wear white shirts to hold the priesthood???
Ok now I really need a Snickers bar
“Itbutgaf.. the Lord telling me something and the First Presidency “advising” me something is NOT the same thing”
Then go ahead and disregard what they say. Ignore the Prophet’s counsel and see what blessing you receive for doing so.
(Unless you’re like Jeff and don’t believe there can be such a thing as a blessing.)
“What does my only having one set of holes in my ears have to do with my respect, my reverence, my service to the Lord, my membership?”
It simply has to do with following the counsel of the President of the Church. If you think that has no relationship to your respect or reverence, then I’m sure I can’t persuade you otherwise.
“Ignore the Prophet’s counsel and see what blessing you receive for doing so.”
What blessing do you think one would receive for following the counsel?
I follow the Lord’s and my prophets counsel very seriously!! I follow all of the commandments, the law of tithing, the words of wisdom, I attend all my meetings to the best of my abilities… I do all the things I need to do that pertain to my salvation and to the following of Heavenly Father’s plan.
I just don’t get where the amount of earings that I wear has anything to do with my celestial glory. Where does it say I can only have one pair of earrings? Was this said in G.C.? Which one? What was the reasoning given? What blessing were we told we would receive if we followed this guide? What happens to all the women that already had more then one hole in each ear when this came out?
Are they now to be ostrasized never to be able to return to their Father in Heaven? Was the prophet talking about those who have 12 holes in each ear and an earing in their eyebrows and tongue and nose? Was he talking specifically about just having a 2nd hole put in each ear that holds just a small diamond stud ?
We are to look our best.. what if a woman thinks that is her best? Is that kind of like Eve choosing the lesser of the 2 “evils’ when she had to choose one of the commandments to follow? She has to either go forth and mulitply or she has to nto touch the tree. She knows to go forth she has to partake of the fruit so she goes and does this.
What if a woman truly feels she is looking her best with an extra hole? I would really like to see scriptural reference to this or at least see the entire subject in full context. Someone I think my Father in Heaven is more concerned with my following all the big stuff then worrying about a 2nd hole in my ear.
And yes in a way you are right when you said something to the effect of the Prophet spoke so you should heed his counsel. But the Lord has also said to use our heads and make our choices.
If this is his counsel does that mean it will now be on our temple recommend interviews?
Lots of questions here about who said what when, who had authority to say it, and what blessings are promised. I think I’d better just offer you the words of the seers themselves:
Here’s what President Hinckley said in the October 2000 General Conference Priesthood session about tattoos:
“Fathers, caution your sons against having their bodies tattooed. They may resist your talk now, but the time will come when they will thank you. A tattoo is graffiti on the temple of the body.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, “Great Shall Be the Peace of thy Children,” General Conference Oct 2000.)
Here’s what President Hinckley said in the November 2000 General Conference Priesthood session about piercing:
“The First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve have declared that we discourage tattoos and also “the piercing of the body for other than medical purposes.†We do not, however, take any position ‘on the minimal piercing of the ears by women for one pair of earrings’—one pair”
Here’s what President Hinckley said in a talk given to youth and young single adults on 12 November 2000 at the Conference Center in Salt Lake City and broadcast by satellite throughout the Church:
“I promise you that the time will come, if you have tattoos, that you will regret your actions. They cannot be washed off. They are permanent. Only by an expensive and painful process can they be removed. If you are tattooed, then probably for the remainder of your life you will carry it with you. I believe the time will come when it will be an embarrassment to you. Avoid it. We, as your Brethren who love you, plead with you not to become so disrespectful of the body which the Lord has given you.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, “A Prophet’s Counsel and Prayer for Youth,†Ensign, Jan. 2001, p2.)
Here’s what True to the Faith, a book of counsel and instructions from the First Presidency and the Twelve, says about tattooing:
“Latter-day prophets strongly discourage the tattooing of the body. Those who disregard this counsel show a lack of respect for themselves and for God. The Apostle Paul taught of the significance of our bodies and the danger of purposefully defiling them: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are†(1 Corinthians 3:16–17).
“If you have a tattoo, you wear a constant reminder of a mistake you have made. You might consider having it removed.” )True to the Faith, p167.)
Here’s what the same book of counsel and instructions says about piercing:
“Latter-day prophets strongly discourage the piercing of the body except for medical purposes. If girls or women desire to have their ears pierced, they are encouraged to wear only one pair of modest earrings.
“Those who choose to disregard this counsel show a lack of respect for themselves and for God. They will someday regret their decision.” (True to the Faith, p27.)
Here’s what an Apostle said in General Conference about following the Prophet’s counsel on piercing:
“Have we studied his counsel and identified the things we need to avoid or to do differently? I know a 17-year-old who, just prior to the prophet’s talk, had pierced her ears a second time. She came home from the fireside, took off the second set of earrings, and simply said to her parents, ‘If President Hinckley says we should only wear one set of earrings, that’s good enough for me.’
“Wearing two pair of earrings may or may not have eternal consequences for this young woman, but her willingness to obey the prophet will. And if she will obey him now, on something relatively simple, how much easier it will be to follow him when greater issues are at stake.” (M. Russell Ballard, “His Word Ye Shall Receive” General Conference Apr 2003.)
“I just don’t get where the amount of earings that I wear has anything to do with my celestial glory.”
Neither do I. That’s why I was surprised when the Prophet gave this instruction. But he did give it. Now the choice is whether to follow his instructions or turn our backs on them.
“What blessing do you think one would receive for following the counsel?”
I don’t know. Something greater than the blessing one receives for rejecting what the Prophet tells us to do.
“If this is his counsel does that mean it will now be on our temple recommend interviews?”
I don’t know. My personal guess is that it won’t be. But that opinion isn’t any more important than yours. Could the Prophet add this to temple recommends? Yes, he could.
NO, because it’s not a commandment
In the somewhat faint hope that this thread may return to its actual topic, I re-offer some of the thoughts I shared on a previous thread:
It’s not too hard to think that the war in Iraq does have some effect on the outcomes that the Lord wants, in terms of helping his children achieve Eternal Life. Therefore, it makes sense that he would have a very great interest in it.
Is it then possible that he was deliberate in allowing George W. Bush to be chosen President? Of course it is possible, just as it was possible that he “suffered” the US Constitution to be established (see D&C 101:7). Is the opposite also possible? Yes.
Is it also possible that he deliberately CAUSED some things to bring about this result? Yes. Is the opposite also possible? Yes.
I don’t presume to know whether the Lord did something to help George W. Bush become President or not. But it certainly isn’t impossible.
Anonymous: You said, “NO, because it’s not a commandment.”
I don’t know which question you are answering. Is it the one about temple recommends? If so, can you point to the “commandment” that says divorced men must pay their alimony and child support payments? That’s in the temple recommend interview.
“Unless you’re like Jeff and don’t believe there can be such a thing as a blessing”
I believe all I said was I thought that the idea of a line taking longer as a consequence of God being unhappy with you seemed silly.
In fact, this is exactly what I said:
“It makes me laugh to think that someone would believe that there is a correlation between bad luck and how pleased or unpleased a supernatural being is with them.”
I also said:
“When people constantly watch for ‘good luck’ and give credit to God for anything good that happens to them, they start to feel that good only comes as a direct result of God’s intervention in their life.”
So I wasn’t saying that I don’t believe there can be such a thing as a blessing, but that random chance enters into the equation too.
“I wasn’t saying that I don’t believe there can be such a thing as a blessing, but that random chance enters into the equation too.”
Then why did you hold me in such contempt for saying that when God wants a person to repent, he may permit or cause bad things to happen to that person?
Your derisive words on that subject were, “It makes me laugh to think that someone would believe that there is a correlation between bad luck and how pleased or unpleased a supernatural being is with them.â€
I replied with references from the Book of Mormon showing that sometimes there is such a correlation.
You said that the Book of Mormon was “not evidence of how things happen in real life.†I replied that you can believe that the Book of Mormon has no relationship to real life only if you believe the Book of Mormon is a fraud.
ltbutgaf thank you for letting me know where the counsel on the earrings came from. I certainly appreciate it.
ltbugaf, re: child support/alimony
“And all children have claim upon their parents for their maintenance until they are of age” (D&C 83:4)
“But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Tim. 5:8)
Anonymous: Good. I agree with you that these scriptures support the necessity for paying child support and alimony. Now let’s reason together.
Look closely at the scriptures you cited: The words “alimony” and “support payments” don’t appear. These passages don’t deal specifically and explicitly with them. More importantly, they say NOTHING about whether this support is a prerequisite for temple worthiness. The Prophet had to turn the principles of those scriptures into direct policy. There was also a time (quite a long time) when this issue was not part of a temple recommend interview. The Brethren had full authority to incorporate these matters into the temple recommend requirements, and they did so.
In the same way, the Prophet is turning principles into direct policies in asking us not to have tattoos, etc. One of the principles at work is that of respect for the temple of the body (as is obvious from the scriptures President Hinckley has quoted in talking about this). He took that principle and turned it into something specific. Specifically, he asks us not to get our bodies pierced more than once in the ears for women and not at all for men, and to avoid tattoos altogether. He also attached a promise, as you can read above, that we will regret going against this counsel.
Just as the Brethren had authority to add a question about alimony and child support to the temple recommend list, they also have authority to add a question about tattoos and piercings. If they do so, they will do it after seeking and receiving guidance from the Spirit.
Do I expect them to add a question like that? No. But that’s just my opinion, and I may be wrong. You don’t know any more than I do whether they will or won’t add such a question.
The instructions about tattoos and piercings, and the promises attached to them, bring into play another extremely important principle that is embodied in the following scriptures:
“…and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people” D&C 1:14
“For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.” D&C 21:5
I’m sorry I derailed this thread with the tattoo issue. I think some unsupportable claims have been made, but disputing them would constitute a continued threadjack. If someone wants to start a thread about whether or not our leaders always pray and receive inspiration before issuing instructions, then perhaps Itbugaf and I can discuss our respective views.
As requested, Will. Here you go.
Kim, didn’t you already do this a long time ago? Why the new #67?